The War Thread (was Santa Fe Peace Vigil)

[Jonel]

Santa Feans Join Worldwide Peace Vigil

By MARISSA STONE | The New Mexican 03/17/2003


Jeff and Bronwen Davis hold candles during one of four silent peace vigils held in Santa Fe on Sunday night as part of rolling global vigils involving 139 countries.- Preston Gannaway | The New Mexican
he man in the long brown coat stood on the Santa Fe Plaza Sunday night with his eyes closed as though he were praying. Tears ran down his face.

Jamie Chase stood with about 300 others during one of many vigils for peace held in waves during different time zones around the world Sunday. Two other vigils were held in Santa Fe, including a vigil at the Capitol that drew about 450 people.

Chase's tears were for war with Iraq, he said, which seemed more certain after President Bush attended a weekend summit and said afterward, "the moment of truth for the world has come."

People on the Plaza and members of Peace Action New Mexico joined 6,000 candlelight vigils in 139 countries at 7 p.m. local time. The events were held on the eve of an anticipated United Nations Security Council vote on the war.

Win Without War, an anti-Iraq war coalition, spurred the vigils, along with the coalition's affiliate, MoveOn.org.

A white sign on a bench said: "Silent vigil 7 to 8 p.m." People held lighted white candles as they stood in a circle that grew to about 300.

In the background, Norm Ralph of Detroit, Mich., strummed on his guitar and sang "Come to me and I'll set you free," lyrics to Ball of Confusion by The Temptations.

"Our president has given a lot of reasons for attacking Iraq," said Rick Minor. "We all know the real reasons are hidden ... it could be oil it could be economic. He (Bush) does not care that Saddam (Hussein) mistreats his people. At least a dozen other nations mistreat their people and we aren't doing anything about them."

"I'm praying for all the children and families in Iraq," said Michael Collins.

Nearby, Christopher Fleury, 20, wearing a rainbow tie-dye shirt, was offering "hugs, love and shows of affection to anyone who is interested tonight." Several people, including Zoe Nelson and her mother, Susan, responded to Fleury's request with hugs.

"You have a beautiful heart," Louisa Putnam told Fleury. She also gave him a hug.

Ernst Rieger, a German tourist, walked up to the vigil wondering what was going on. He nodded when he discovered people were against the war.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa said on Thursday he hoped during the vigils that the "candles rekindle the light of reason and hope so that war will be averted in Iraq and peace will prevail in the world."

[Aba21]

I have no problem with people who are against the war. But if we have to fight we need everyone's support for our friends and relatives who will be fighting for what we believe in. I don't care if it's oil, weapons of mass destruction or what ever, we still have to support them if the word is now fight.

Like it or not we are our brother's keeper. We have the resourses and wherewithall to handle the crisis. Being passive is what got the WTC knocked down. I know when Mr. Branch Rickey of the Dodgers asked Jackie Robinson what he would do if a white ball player was to hit him during a game in his first season. Robinson, knowing the ramifications of what would have happened if he retaliated supposedly said, "Mr. Ricky I've got two cheeks!"

Well they have allready slapped us once. There is so much unrest in the middle east that if we don't do something we will be innocent bystanders again and many of us will be hurt again in the process. In my life I have never feared attack on our own soil and I'm not trying to be afraid now. Yesterday a huge fire in San Antonio at a construction site for ahospital had two big explosions. People were running out fo the mall afraid it was another attack because the President had just concluded his speech. It's getting ridiculous.

The price of freedom as we know it is very high indeed. In order to keep it we must sometimes fight for it. I felt that way when I was eligable for the armed servies and even more so now after having enjoyed a wonderful life living here in America. There is no better place to live in the world.

[Ivory Fair]

Oh yeah, there are a lot of Tempts songs that would be appropriate to sing at a peace rally. If I could figure out what in the heck Dennis was saying on "Stop the War." I would have posted it a long time ago. ........ I've already got the chorus down....... "Does anybody give a d*mn, about this fool who's named Saddam? Stop the war, right now!"

Aba, there is a difference between supporting troops and supporting the war. I wish Kiki well, hope she's safe and hope she returns soon but I wouldn't have to wish for any of that if she didn't have to go over there!

And I don't buy the link to the WTC. If we were talking about Bin Laden that would be another story. If I get mad at Mike, I don't reach over and slap you. And that's what we're doing. I'm at least glad Bush has finally gotten over trying to use 9/11 as an excuse for going after Saddam. It just doesn't work.

Regardless, the US doesn't have the support I think it should have to do this. If this were a unified thing, well, I still wouldn't like it, but at least it would be more justified. We don't even have Canada and Mexico on our sides!

I said it yesterday, I feel like I'm on a runaway bus being driven by a mad cowboy.

And with that, I'm moving this thread to the "lounge."

[Aba21]

So do we continue to allow Saddam to make his poison and his weapons of mass destruction without anyone attempting to oversee it. Now you got Korea and other countrys thinking it's all right to do it. Soon there will be nothing but threats to your life and security everyday cause no one is willing to stand up to people like him I don't need Canada, France or anybody else to decide anything for us. We used to take care of our own problems and we need to show we still can. I'm not blaming Saddam for WTC but it goes in the same folder. People can shoot our planes down, bomb our citizens, blow up our embassy and buildings, kidnap our people and we have to keep turning the other cheek. Pretty soon we'll be spinning around in a circle.The freedoms you have today , you got because of the country you live in. Try living over there and see if you have those same freedoms. Why the hell do you think thousands of people flock over here from everywhere in the world each year to live. I don't want to see war either but there are times when you have to do what must be done. This may be one of those times. Obviously economic sanctions and embargos haven't done the trick. They refuse to respect the UN's decree's to open their country up to the inspectors. What more can you do? Should we just go away and let him do what he wants. I don't care what you say, Saddam has links to Bin Laden's people and that's a fact. When we told them that if they harbored any fugities from his group be prepared to face the music. I'm sorry........I'm from NY and maybe if you lived there you could understand the magnitude of what was done to our country. I am still pissed off the the highest level. To see that big gaping hole in the middle of the greatest city in the world is mind boggling. This country has been the world's big sherriff for as long as there has been wars. We have never needed any one permission to resolve conflicts. It is our responsibility. The UN was designed to give all countires the chance to speak and help govern the world. Other countries do not always abide by the UN"s decisions why are you holding us to it? I am not mad at YOU, just the continued passiveness of the people who talk of freedoms and what this country stands for. How do you think we got those freedoms.......we fought for them and we have to fight to keep them.

If you are in a street fight, do you let the other person sucker punch you first? Not me. I'm tired of being hit. People looking in my bags, getting undressed at airports everytime I go somewhere. People taking over our airplanes. Jumping at every loud noise you hear! We are not respected in many places in Europe. All they want is our money and then you get the hell out. This stuff used to only happen in foriegn countries. Half the stuff Saddam is doing is to distract us from our goal of wiping out terrorism.

You say we don't have a legitmate reason to attack. Please tell me what would be a good enough reason for you. And understand my anger is not directed at you Ivory. I'm just giving my opinion. At least you will respond with how you really feel. Saddam continues to lie.

[iratherlikeme]

Why is this country allowed to have bombs and they aren't? The United States is doing nothing but being a bully and that's why other countries don't want anything to do with us. I understand that there are times when enough is enough, but I don't see where Saddam Hussein has threatened this country (maybe recently, but I hadn't heard anything before your president's obsession with this man started). Bush isn't very diplomatic and that's where his problems start. He has a cowboy mentality, which will not help his cause, trying to wrangle folks into doing his will because he wants it done. And for what?

[Aba21]

IRLM...and where were you in 1991?

[iratherlikeme]

I was in Mississippi. And where were you?

[Aba21]

IRLM...and where were you in 1991? This country has never used the bomb on anyone except to end WW2 . We haven't used one since. Can these other coutries with these crazy dictators say the same?. Would you trust your future with Saddam? If so maybe you should try living there and seeing how he treats women inthat country. I didn't vote for Bush but I support his tough guy stance. I voted for CLinton and he should have taken out Saddam when he had the chance and we wouldn't be here now. Trust me if they could have taken himand Bin Laden out by now they would have. War is different now. You think you have the right to know everything that goes on in a war and when you find out you're disgusted. War is hell. It ain't pretty and on one says it is. For us to be where we are today means that they are all talked out. For once we are being the aggressor after having our blocks knocked off in NY and now we're the bullies......I think not. How much more can we stand? How much? Sounds like you're over the WTC....I'm not. I don't want to see it happen again. Saddam, Bin Laden,Yassir mean the world no good. We are not the bully. We are the victums or did you forget?#

[Aba21]

IRLM...understand I don't want to see war and if there is anyway to avoid it I hope they can find it. I don't know how old you are but I lived in Italy when the Red Brigade was terrorizing. The Pope was shot. I was dragged off of busses just because I was an AMerican in Yugoslavia. I was told not to leave my hotel at night in Turkey. The train station in Bolongna was blown up. Who want to live in fear like that. You can't ride public transportation over there for fear it will be blown up. They can't handle their own problems and you want them to have weapons that could destroy the whole world.?

[iratherlikeme]

I must've forgotten that we were the victims. Personally, I think that this country and its cowboy president could stand for the arrogance to be knocked down a notch or twelve. And I'm not talking about the WTC towers, either, before we even get into that.

I didn't say anything about us bombing people, but he is starting to threaten people, which is the same thing as what he says Saddam is doing. What's the difference between him and Saddam in that regard? It's not just lipservice on Bush's part, either, because I think he's looking for the slightest reason to attack anything. Just the presence of a threat is enough to put people on edge. They have just as much a right to protect themselves from danger as we do, in my opinion.

Would you trust your future with Saddam? If so maybe you should try living there and seeing how he treats women inthat country.

I also didn't say anything about living in Iraq. I know how he treats his citizens and I like living here just fine.

I voted for CLinton and he should have taken out Saddam when he had the chance and we wouldn't be here now.

Killing Hussein only takes out Hussein. There aren't more like him out there? And I really don't think you can kill all of them.

For once we are being the aggressor after having our blocks knocked off in NY and now we're the bullies......I think not.

So the attacks in NY was Saddam's thing. Okay.

I'm just saying that there could've been another way to do what Bush is doing. Putting people on hit lists and making threats isn't doing much for our image. If he really wants support he needs to learn diplomacy.

[iratherlikeme]

They can't handle their own problems and you want them to have weapons that could destroy the whole world.?

We also have destructive weapons, and we also have problems in this country. Nothing like that but problems are problems.

I honestly believe that it's not about weapons with Bush; that's just an excuse he's hiding behind.

[Ivory Fair]

I'm from NY and maybe if you lived there you could understand the magnitude of what was done to our country.

Aba, let me remind you of one of the web sites I maintain......

temptationslyrics.4t.com/

(make sure you GO there and read the first page)

You'll see I fully understand the magnitude of what was done to our country.

This country has been the world's big sherriff for as long as there has been wars.

No, the country's only been the world sherriff for the past 50 years and that's why no one likes us.

We have never needed any one permission to resolve conflicts. It is our responsibility.

7-)

If you are in a street fight, do you let the other person sucker punch you first?

I've always lived with this scripture as one of my fundamental beliefs.... "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:17-21) So I guess the answer to your question is "yes." But then again, I generally try to avoid street fights.

There is no legitimate reason to attack. You're forgetting that in the past 15 years, we've seen communism and apharteid (sp?) dimantled with virtually no blood shed.

War is not always the answer.

IRLM, well said girl! 2-)

[Aba21]

All I can say Ivory is an ounce of prevention.......... So you will let yourself be attacked before you respond? We are the wealthiest, strongest nation in the world and we should sit back and let others do what they want in terms of world threat. I don't understand it. You wnatr to hide in the closet. These people are not afraid to die for what they believe. It seems you must be.

[Aba21]

Irlm...I am not blaming Saddam for 9/11. But he has had a reign of terror since he has been in office. How would you settle this conflict. What other diplomatic thing could you do in his place. We know Bush is not the best in that area. But I love the way I live, just like you, the freedom to go anywhere, do anything and we got those freedoms through fighting for what we beleive every since we won our independence from England. We will at somettime have to fight again. I hope not but every generation has seen it. I am not in support of War but I will not let the people who are over there fighting for me think I don't support what they do. That would be wrong.

[iratherlikeme]

I don't understand it. You wnatr to hide in the closet. These people are not afraid to die for what they believe. It seems you must be.

I'd be afraid to die for a cause that I didn't understand (like this one).

Irlm...I am not blaming Saddam for 9/11. But he has had a reign of terror since he has been in office.

You said that we were attacked and that we shouldn't sit back and just take it. If Saddam Hussein wasn't behind those attacked why are we attacking him? It sounds like an inane attempt on your president's part to cover up that he hasn't done much to capture those particular culprits; finding somebody else to pick on.

But I love the way I live, just like you, the freedom to go anywhere, do anything and we got those freedoms through fighting for what we beleive every since we won our independence from England.

We have freedom to go anywhere and do anything, but yet I absolutely love how we can't voice our opinions if they happen to be contrary to the president's (and other war supporters). Then we're being unpatriotic.
7-)