|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 18, 2004 12:30:39 GMT -5
David Ruffin did the right thing in trying to sue Motown. If you look at what was going on at the time,you would know this. Ego had nothing to do with it,for David was a group-man.He knew the business much better than anyone in the group. His problem was....there was no middle -road.It's sad that people were mislead by slanted presentations of the group,via book & movie.
Other's were on delay as far as the concerns of the group goes.David was a strong personality and that intimidated people. Therefore the untruths and twisted tales. Do your reasearch and you will find out,if you have the courage.
|
|
|
|
Post by EddiesLuv on Jun 18, 2004 13:38:09 GMT -5
Why is all the focus on David's drug problems. Geez the man was 50 before he finally overdosed. Elvis, Hendrix, Joplin are held up high and they all overdosed. Thats where I think the movie did a mis-service to him. Things have to be put into perspective it was the 1960's and 1970s there was a war going on, civil rights marches, and people got high. Drugs were rampant. Society was a lot different than it is now. There were no SAY NO TO DRUGS campaigns. There were very few opportunities for blacks and Motown was really the only opportunity at the time. Thats where Gordy had the upperhand. At the time those contracts were signed those guys were young. They didn't have the legal savvy or the resources to negotiate contracts like the young artists of today have. Marvin Gaye had a bigger drug and money problem than David did and he isn't ridiculed like Ruffin.
|
|
|
|
Post by kim on Jun 18, 2004 14:41:05 GMT -5
David Ruffin did the right thing in trying to sue Motown. If you look at what was going on at the time,you would know this. Ego had nothing to do with it,for David was a group-man.He knew the business much better than anyone in the group. His problem was....there was no middle -road.It's sad that people were mislead by slanted presentations of the group,via book & movie. Other's were on delay as far as the concerns of the group goes.David was a strong personality and that intimidated people. Therefore the untruths and twisted tales. Do your reasearch and you will find out,if you have the courage. He wasn't wrong for suing Motown but he wasn't right for not showing up to concerts missing practices because he was upset with management. Everyone from Gladys Knight to the Jackson Five were ticked with Berry and the way he was running things. But they didn't allow that to stand in the way of performing for their fans. Like I said Prince was locked in a "slave" contract but he never disappointed those who paid to see him and he kept recording until his contract was up. Hence he is here 25 years later still doing his thing. David wasn't the first artist to be screwed and he won't be the last (watching MTV's Making The Band proves that) but he should have been more careful not to burn bridges and allow everything else to get into the way of the big picture his career. |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 18, 2004 15:51:13 GMT -5
He wasn't wrong for suing Motown but he wasn't right for not showing up to concerts missing practices because he was upset with management. Everyone from Gladys Knight to the Jackson Five were ticked with Berry and the way he was running things. But they didn't allow that to stand in the way of performing for their fans. Like I said Prince was locked in a "slave" contract but he never disappointed those who paid to see him and he kept recording until his contract was up. Hence he is here 25 years later still doing his thing. David wasn't the first artist to be screwed and he won't be the last (watching MTV's Making The Band proves that) but he should have been more careful not to burn bridges and allow everything else to get into the way of the big picture his career. There's so much that you have been mislead about ,I don't have the time to tell you. Envy was also at the root of thee group's problems.At petty stuff,to boot. All I can say is everytime David was supposed to show up at the shows I went to,he was there. Solo,or with the group. I have not talked to anyone that says David didn't show up at any show that they attended. So much was distorted and twisted,and it's easy to find out what was really going on....if you give yourself the chance. Why do you think Melvin never commented on Otis' book? He didn't want anything to tarnish the "Temptations" name.That could be a reason why he didn't speak up at times that he knew he should have. I can't say the same for Otis. I can't get upset with you if you choose not to reasearch these things yourself. I did. Things were not as reported. I know this. Nobody was an angel in this epic story of the Temptations. I know that they were once a tight-knitt group,and it changed. Not with the glitter of stardom ,as the "historians" at Motown want you to believe.With child-like grudges that carried over the years. You would be surprised . David was not the only one with the drug problems. He was just the only one that was exposed.Why? Because of his views.Ruffin was a very well-spoken man who was into the Black struggle of the sixties.He was up for a part in a story about Cassius Clay,and tried out for the role of Stokely Carmichael,which he didn't get. Just like Melvin didn't get the part in "Bingo Long & The Traveling All-Stars" with Billy Dee Williams. There is a whole lot about David Ruffin that you don't know& seems like you don't care to find out. This is not an attack,more like a plea to read more ,so this can be discussed with open mind.Not only with David,but the whole group.You may find that the rest of the HOF6,Melvin included felt betrayed by the writting of the book. That's why nobody else wrote a book. They felt Family secerets,should be kept...seceret. Think about it. And give the others some respect. They were no dummies,as you would like for us to believe. |
|
|
|
Post by mtlady4 on Jun 18, 2004 16:14:00 GMT -5
There's so much that you have been mislead about ,I don't have the time to tell you. Envy was also at the root of thee group's problems.At petty stuff,to boot. All I can say is everytime David was supposed to show up at the shows I went to,he was there. Solo,or with the group. I have not talked to anyone that says David didn't show up at any show that they attended. So much was distorted and twisted,and it's easy to find out what was really going on....if you give yourself the chance. Why do you think Melvin never commented on Otis' book? He didn't want anything to tarnish the "Temptations" name.That could be a reason why he didn't speak up at times that he knew he should have. I can't say the same for Otis. I can't get upset with you if you choose not to reasearch these things yourself. I did. Things were not as reported. I know this. Nobody was an angel in this epic story of the Temptations. I know that they were once a tight-knitt group,and it changed. Not with the glitter of stardom ,as the "historians" at Motown want you to believe.With child-like grudges that carried over the years. You would be surprised . David was not the only one with the drug problems. He was just the only one that was exposed.Why? Because of his views.Ruffin was a very well-spoken man who was into the Black struggle of the sixties.He was up for a part in a story about Cassius Clay,and tried out for the role of Stokely Carmichael,which he didn't get. Just like Melvin didn't get the part in "Bingo Long & The Traveling All-Stars" with Billy Dee Williams. There is a whole lot about David Ruffin that you don't know& seems like you don't care to find out. This is not an attack,more like a plea to read more ,so this can be discussed with open mind.Not only with David,but the whole group.You may find that the rest of the HOF6,Melvin included felt betrayed by the writting of the book. That's why nobody else wrote a book. They felt Family secerets,should be kept...seceret. Think about it. And give the others some respect. They were no dummies,as you would like for us to believe. Very well said Mike! The issue has always been focused on David's drug problems and personal issues. What the public fail to realize is that David was not the only one in the group getting high but unfortunately, he is the one who was exposed as a drug user. David is/was portrayed as being out for himself but that is far from the truth. Because David was signed on as a solo artist at Anna Records before going to the Gordy label and eventually becoming a Temptation, he was much wiser as far as the music business as Eddie, Paul, Otis and Melvin was and when he saw that they were being cheated out of a lot of money, he went out of his way to educate them starting with Eddie first, which lead the two of them to become quite vocal about how they were being cheated. This is why Eddie and David was seen as "being difficult to work with". This is the main reason why David was let go because he was seen as a threat. I do not know about anyone else but if I worked my ass off and at the end of the pay period, I saw only $50 on my check, there will be hell to pay fa sho, i.e. spitting, cussing, etc., especially if my boss, which in this case is Gordy is getting richer off of the fruit of my labor and I am doing all of the work!! |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 18, 2004 16:29:49 GMT -5
Very well said Mike! The issue has always been focused on David's drug problems and personal issues. What the public fail to realize is that David was not the only one in the group getting high but unfortunately, he is the one who was exposed as a drug user. David is/was portrayed as being out for himself but that is far from the truth. Because David was signed on as a solo artist at Anna Records before going to the Gordy label and eventually becoming a Temptation, he was much wiser as far as the music business as Eddie, Paul, Otis and Melvin was and when he saw that they were being cheated out of a lot of money, he went out of his way to educate them starting with Eddie first, which lead the two of them to become quite vocal about how they were being cheated. This is why Eddie and David was seen as "being difficult to work with". This is the main reason why David was let go because he was seen as a threat. I do not know about anyone else but if I worked my ass off and at the end of the pay period, I saw only $50 on my check, there will be hell to pay fa sho, i.e. spitting, cussing, etc., especially if my boss, which in this case is Gordy is getting richer off of the fruit of my labor and I am doing all of the work!! So,are you saying that the backlash had more to do with David's pulling the rest of the group's coat as opposed to the drugs,as some would like to make us believe? |
|
|
|
Post by mtlady4 on Jun 18, 2004 16:47:45 GMT -5
So,are you saying that the backlash had more to do with David's pulling the rest of the group's coat as opposed to the drugs,as some would like to make us believe? That is exactly what I am saying! David was not speaking up just for David but for the entire group. He and Eddie became quite close early on and during this time, he began to educate Eddie on the business side of music as far as their contracts. etc. (David had a different contract than Eddie, Paul, Melvin and Otis.) The two of them became quite vocal about the misdeeds bestowed upon the group. They kept telling the others that they needed to stick together concerning money/business issues or else the group will fall apart, which eventually it did. With David out of the group, it was felt that Eddie would be less vocal and his vote would be weakened considerably! |
|
|
|
Post by kim on Jun 18, 2004 16:55:44 GMT -5
Pulling ones coat is has nothing to do with being unprofessional. A person who has that type of reputation will kill their career plain and simple. If an artist has a reputation and undependable and unreliable it will kill your career whether you are a drug user or if you are drug free. Being cheated out of royalties is unfortunate the nature of this business. David wasn't the first nor will he be the last to be screwed by a record company. TLC sold over 10 million records/cd with "Crazy Sexy Cool" and they only had 50,000 dollars to show for it. Those girls were bitter and angry but they kept plugging away with their careers in the midst of Lisa getting in trouble with the law and burning Andre house down Chili had personal problems and T-Boz was sick in the hospital with Sickle Cell . Personal problems creep up in everyone's life its how you handle those situations that make or break you.
|
|
|
|
Post by EddiesLuv on Jun 18, 2004 17:02:14 GMT -5
What the public fail to realize is that David was not the only one in the group getting high but unfortunately, he is the one who was exposed as a drug user. I heard that everybody got high. Even my beloved Eddie.  |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 18, 2004 17:04:55 GMT -5
Pulling ones coat is has nothing to do with being unprofessional. A person who has that type of reputation will kill their career plain and simple. If an artist has a reputation and undependable and unreliable it will kill your career whether you are a drug user or if you are drug free. Being cheated out of royalties is unfortunate the nature of this business. David wasn't the first nor will he be the last to be screwed by a record company. TLC sold over 10 million records/cd with "Crazy Sexy Cool" and they only had 50,000 dollars to show for it. Those girls were bitter and angry but they kept plugging away with their careers in the midst of Lisa getting in trouble with the law and burning Andre house down Chili had personal problems and T-Boz was sick in the hospital with Sickle Cell . Personal problems creep up in everyone's life its how you handle those situations that make or break you. I'm glad you brought TLC up. Question,did the group try to replace Left Eye? It seemed to me they stuck together,and that my dear is being professional.And sticking together.Be whatever come what may,TLC stuck together....'till death did they part. They cared about Lisa,even if she pissed them off. Maybe they thought like me...better to be pissed offf...than pissed on! So, thank you for bringing that point up. Got more? |
|
|
|
Post by mtlady4 on Jun 18, 2004 17:34:39 GMT -5
I'm glad you brought TLC up. Question,did the group try to replace Left Eye? It seemed to me they stuck together,and that my dear is being professional.And sticking together.Be whatever come what may,TLC stuck together....'till death did they part. They cared about Lisa,even if she pissed them off. Maybe they thought like me...better to be pissed offf...than pissed on! So, thank you for bringing that point up. Got more? Yes, TLC did stick together in spite of Lisa's many issues!! T-Boz and Chili never stopped loving Lisa or wanted her to leave the group despite her saying that she wanted to leave on more than one occasion! When you and Kim mentioned TLC, I immediately thought of the other Motown groups in the 60s who stuck together as well, i.e., The Four Tops, Smokey and The Miracles, Gladys Knight & The Pips, etc. It is REALLY sad that the same cannot be said for C5! |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 18, 2004 17:39:46 GMT -5
Yes, TLC did stick together in spite of Lisa's many issues!! T-Boz and Chili never stopped loving Lisa or wanted her to leave the group despite her saying that she wanted to leave on more than one occasion! When you and Kim mentioned TLC, I immediately thought of the other Motown groups in the 60s who stuck together as well, i.e., The Four Tops, Smokey and The Miracles, Gladys Knight & The Pips, etc. It is REALLY sad that the same cannot be said for C5! Almost as sad as the fact that this point is IGNORED ! |
|
|
|
Post by janebse on Jun 18, 2004 17:57:50 GMT -5
Smokey Robinson broke away from the Miracles about 34 years ago. Two of the Tops didn't speak to each other f0r 20 years and then one died. The Pips haven't performed with Gladys in recent years. The Beatles were only together about 10 years.
Smokey did not perform with the Miracles on Motown 25. ANd, of course, Diana left the Supremes 34 years ago too.
The only people who appeared to live together in perfect bliss were the Reagans,Nancy and Ron.
Band members change all the time. Why should anyone expect singing groups to be any different. Everyone knew David wanted to be a solo artist. The Tempts knew this. Melvin spoke frankly of it in interviews. (Did you catch the pun?)
No one expected David to remain a Temptation long. But what one should remember is that Otis has been one for 43 or 44 years. Melvin was one for 34 or so years. Richard was one for 22 plus years. Ron has been one for 22 years. Dennis was one for (have to go to the charts to get this number) for a long while. Ali was one for around 10 years or just under. They've done pretty well at keeping members, and if Curet gets asked, he may stay for 30 years or so.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 18, 2004 18:05:19 GMT -5
Smokey Robinson broke away from the Miracles about 34 years ago. Two of the Tops didn't speak to each other f0r 20 years and then one died. The Pips haven't performed with Gladys in recent years. The Beatles were only together about 10 years. Smokey did not perform with the Miracles on Motown 25. ANd, of course, Diana left the Supremes 34 years ago too. The only people who appeared to live together in perfect bliss were the Reagans,Nancy and Ron. Band members change all the time. Why should anyone expect singing groups to be any different. Everyone knew David wanted to be a solo artist. The Tempts knew this. Melvin spoke frankly of it in interviews. (Did you catch the pun?) No one expected David to remain a Temptation long. But what one should remember is that Otis has been one for 43 or 44 years. Melvin was one for 34 or so years. Richard was one for 22 plus years. Ron has been one for 22 years. Dennis was one for (have to go to the charts to get this number) for a long while. Ali was one for around 10 years or just under. They've done pretty well at keeping members, and if Curet gets asked, he may stay for 30 years or so. This is not true. I don't know who "no one" is,but not anyone connected with the Tempts. Thanks for proving what I've been saying about staying together despite inner conflicts. The Four Tops stuck together when it came to business. The revolving door spins so fast,it feels like air conditioning! |
|
|
|
Post by ZeldaFScott on Jun 18, 2004 18:38:47 GMT -5
"If an artist has a reputation and undependable and unreliable it will kill your career ..."
Well many a reputation -- good or bad -- has been fabricated or blown out of proportion to further someone elese causes. That is just a thought of mine. And I think it's not that far fetched in regard to David Ruffin. Some people are systematically made "holy cows," others end up as the bad guys. Once the machinery is working there's no escape. It has happened to everyday people as well as to stars.
|
|
