|
|
Post by EddiesLuv on Jun 18, 2004 18:48:03 GMT -5
"If an artist has a reputation and undependable and unreliable it will kill your career ..." Well many a reputation -- good or bad -- has been fabricated or blown out of proportion to further someone elese causes. That is just a thought of mine. And I think it's not that far fetched in regard to David Ruffin. Some people are systematically made "holy cows," others end up as the bad guys. Once the machinery is working there's no escape. It has happened to everyday people as well as to stars. Who the heck was there beside Otis that can tell the story? Nobody knows to what extent David was missing shows or wasn't missing shows except for the people involved and who they ultimately told. Bottom line they was being cheated and he was pissed. That was the music business in the 20th century. |
|
|
|
Post by ZeldaFScott on Jun 18, 2004 19:11:38 GMT -5
I think bottom line is that we should not take everything for its face value. Take, for example, Joe DiMaggio. He is revered almost like a saint n this country. That is because his beating his wife (Marilyn Monroe) unconscious, breaking her chaw bone is elegantly hushed up. A while ago, I heard an interview with his biographer which made me sick to my stomach. I forgot the name of the author, but he tried to explain the whole thing away ... That's how a cult is kept alive. Had Joe DiMaggio been in a situation like David Ruffin (i.e. suing someone) I am sure his opponents would have dragged out every piece of mud they could have found about him. The publicity machine in DiMaggio's case worked for not against him. Therefore, I am analyzing obviously too good or too bad reputations before I accept them as the truth.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Jun 18, 2004 21:54:06 GMT -5
I think bottom line is that we should not take everything for its face value. Take, for example, Joe DiMaggio. He is revered almost like a saint n this country. That is because his beating his wife (Marilyn Monroe) unconscious, breaking her chaw bone is elegantly hushed up. A while ago, I heard an interview with his biographer which made me sick to my stomach. I forgot the name of the author, but he tried to explain the whole thing away ... That's how a cult is kept alive. Had Joe DiMaggio been in a situation like David Ruffin (i.e. suing someone) I am sure his opponents would have dragged out every piece of mud they could have found about him. The publicity machine in DiMaggio's case worked for not against him. Therefore, I am analyzing obviously too good or too bad reputations before I accept them as the truth. Yes but when did you find out all the things about Joe D.? After he was dead. Just like Babe Ruth and JFK.........the press did sheild these people and left people's private lives to themselves. Sometimes I wonder who the hell we think we are that we have to know every damn thing about every damn body. Why can't you just enjoy what they brought to the table and let the rumor mongels and skeptics run themselves crazy. I realize no one is perfect which is why I *choose* to talk about the positive cause I bet I could look in a lot of closets, mine included and find some skeletons somewhere. |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 19, 2004 16:03:59 GMT -5
"If an artist has a reputation and undependable and unreliable it will kill your career ..." Well many a reputation -- good or bad -- has been fabricated or blown out of proportion to further someone elese causes. That is just a thought of mine. And I think it's not that far fetched in regard to David Ruffin. Some people are systematically made "holy cows," others end up as the bad guys. Once the machinery is working there's no escape. It has happened to everyday people as well as to stars. :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: ![]() temptsinfo.com/smilies/wtg.gif![]() |
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Jun 19, 2004 20:56:18 GMT -5
Are you saying that much of what is written about DAvid Ruffin is a lie? Are you saying that it was done to make someone else look good? If so, then who. Be specific. Who used David as a springboard to something greater? Just curious. Do you mean writers? Groupmates? All the singers didn't have problems overcoming what was going on at Motown, Glady Knight & The Pips, THe Spinners and the FOur Tops all found ways to leave and keep their dignity.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 20, 2004 15:08:13 GMT -5
Are you saying that much of what is written about DAvid Ruffin is a lie? Are you saying that it was done to make someone else look good? If so, then who. Be specific. Who used David as a springboard to something greater? Just curious. Do you mean writers? Groupmates? All the singers didn't have problems overcoming what was going on at Motown, Glady Knight & The Pips, THe Spinners and the FOur Tops all found ways to leave and keep their dignity. Most of it,yes I'm saying that it's fiction. Yes,the way the story was told,it was told in a way to make someone else look good. Who? Otis. He did use David as a springboard for that damn movie. Without David,what else was Otis gonna talk about?Al ? All the singers that you mentioned,even if they had the inner problems,they were united as far as BUSINESS goes. Why is this so hard to understand? This was not about EGO,or LIFESTYLES,this was,and still is about BUSINESS. The "Lifestyles" and alledged EGO is a distraction from the real issues. Just like a pair of socks at a Donnie Simpson interview. Excuses made to cloud the real issue.......BUSINESS. Seems to me,that a lot of people around here choose to IGNORE these FACTS. Dogging David,Eddie,Paul Dennis & Melvin seems to be the escape route that one travels on their way to FANTASY ISLAND ! Now, some may say that's what I do to Otis,but he did it to himself,I just laid out the documentation for anybody with enough respect for these guys(which I don't think that there is much respect for around here) to actually look at what's being said. Instead of distractions over B.S. I have yet to find someone to really,openly discuss this with. Why they are intimidated is beyond me. I guess you have the same problem yourself Aba. People are intimidated to discuss certain issues with you ,if they may see things differently than you do. I hope that people aren't on the sidelines waiting for me to straighten you out ,or waiting for you to straighten me out. So, they treat us like the second coming of ALI-FRAZIER,they wait without adding any imput. There is nothing to be afraid of,unless their mind is closed,then that serves no purpose. If that's the case don't distract...interact. I'm nobody's spokesperson,and you aren't either. Sometimes,I may be of mind to agree with you,and you with me. But,in order to keep this at least a little bit interesting and non-ass kissy-kissy,we gotta respond to certain things. If we don't,they will just get ignored. Either way you feel,the point will be ignored. People can't afford to ignore a damn thing. I don't. I am not in a position to ignore anyone. The only advantage I have is..I realize that everybody needs to be listened to. A lot of folks still have not learned this lesson yet. I feel for them. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by ZeldaFScott on Jun 20, 2004 18:01:01 GMT -5
I don't mean to say that everything said and written about David was a lie. But I suspect that much of it was exaggerated or manipulated to create exactly the picture we have of him now. And I think it was mainly the work of Berry Gordy. He, in my opinion, did not want David to survive in the music business after being sued by him. That's my opinion. Also, this would very well match Berry's overall style of destroying the careers of such artists who had stepped on his toes. Brenda Holloways story comes to my mind, for example. And a big business guy like Berry knows how to pull the strings that need to be pulled to get the uncomfortable fellows out of his way ... He was into the boxing business before he started Motown and, if one may believe his former wife, he also was a pimp ... So the kind of business ethics Berry Gordy was used to is not necessary a highly reputable one.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 20, 2004 18:06:19 GMT -5
I don't mean to say that everything said and written about David was a lie. But I suspect that much of it was exaggerated or manipulated to create exactly the picture we have of him now. And I think it was mainly the work of Berry Gordy. He, in my opinion, did not want David to survive in the music business after being sued by him. That's my opinion. Also, this would very well match Berry's overall style of destroying the careers of such artists who had stepped on his toes. Brenda Holloways story comes to my mind, for example. And a big business guy like Berry knows how to pull the strings that need to be pulled to get the uncomfortable fellows out of his way ... He was into the boxing business before he started Motown and, if one may believe his former wife, he also was a pimp ... So the kind of business ethics Berry Gordy was used to is not necessary a highly reputable one. Rap on,sister,Rap On! ![]() temptsinfo.com/smilies/wtg.gif![]() |
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Jun 20, 2004 18:14:32 GMT -5
I don't mean to say that everything said and written about David was a lie. But I suspect that much of it was exaggerated or manipulated to create exactly the picture we have of him now. And I think it was mainly the work of Berry Gordy. He, in my opinion, did not want David to survive in the music business after being sued by him. That's my opinion. Also, this would very well match Berry's overall style of destroying the careers of such artists who had stepped on his toes. Brenda Holloways story comes to my mind, for example. And a big business guy like Berry knows how to pull the strings that need to be pulled to get the uncomfortable fellows out of his way ... He was into the boxing business before he started Motown and, if one may believe his former wife, he also was a pimp ... So the kind of business ethics Berry Gordy was used to is not necessary a highly reputable one. This is exactly what I have been saying for a long time. THe main character in the is story has been Berry Gordy. Now I have said also that Otis learned what he knows from Berry about business. If that's the case you can see very clearly why he is the way he is. It is one of the reasons you never hear me say anything about Otis great business sense because if he's like Berry..........well..... need I say more. And to further the point, Berry got out the game with over 100 million of what I believe to be other people's money and if Otis is aspiring to do the same, he's doing a piss-poor job of it. So just how much did he learn for Berry? ;D |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 20, 2004 18:43:08 GMT -5
This is exactly what I have been saying for a long time. THe main character in the is story has been Berry Gordy. Now I have said also that Otis learned what he knows from Berry about business. If that's the case you can see very clearly why he is the way he is. It is one of the reasons you never hear me say anything about Otis great business sense because if he's like Berry..........well..... need I say more. And to further the point, Berry got out the game with over 100 million of what I believe to be other people's money and if Otis is aspiring to do the same, he's doing a piss-poor job of it. So just how much did he learn for Berry? ;D How to stay in court! And the cutthroat tactics that are used in the group. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Davidfan on Jun 21, 2004 18:06:49 GMT -5
He wasn't wrong for suing Motown but he wasn't right for not showing up to concerts missing practices because he was upset with management. Everyone from Gladys Knight to the Jackson Five were ticked with Berry and the way he was running things. But they didn't allow that to stand in the way of performing for their fans. Like I said Prince was locked in a "slave" contract but he never disappointed those who paid to see him and he kept recording until his contract was up. Hence he is here 25 years later still doing his thing. David wasn't the first artist to be screwed and he won't be the last (watching MTV's Making The Band proves that) but he should have been more careful not to burn bridges and allow everything else to get into the way of the big picture his career. I am a little late for this but I belive MIKE said something about this before on the 10 page thread DAVID SUES MOTOWN ... "Were you ever at a concert were david wasn't there?" Or along those lines ...Maybe he missed rehearsels ... But can anyone recall him missing concerts? ... He didn't exactly burn bridges ... He knew Otis and Motown were rippin' him off ... Was he signed to motown forever? No he went to WARNER BROS. ... "allow everything else to get into the way of the big picture his career" Everything else? What's everything else? Please don't tell me you're going by the movie and tell me you think he went off on the temps the way he did (at least that many times) David was just a man who stood up for what he wanted and wouldn't backdown ... I admire it ... I don't know about you but that seems noble to me ... and If there where more artists like that today ... There carrears would last more then 15 minutes ... So in my eyes ... (Even if David wasn't my favorite temptation) He did the right thing ... and Chances are if he was still alive he would STILL be singing ... and most likly he would do it all over again ... But you know that's just my opinion ;D Look Mike my first long post! aren't you proud .... lol  |
|
|
|
Post by Temptress on Jun 21, 2004 18:25:29 GMT -5
Can we all agree to disagree?  . |
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 22, 2004 0:13:10 GMT -5
I am a little late for this but I belive MIKE said something about this before on the 10 page thread DAVID SUES MOTOWN ... "Were you ever at a concert were david wasn't there?" Or along those lines ...Maybe he missed rehearsels ... But can anyone recall him missing concerts? ... He didn't exactly burn bridges ... He knew Otis and Motown were rippin' him off ... Was he signed to motown forever? No he went to WARNER BROS. ... "allow everything else to get into the way of the big picture his career" Everything else? What's everything else? Please don't tell me you're going by the movie and tell me you think he went off on the temps the way he did (at least that many times) David was just a man who stood up for what he wanted and wouldn't backdown ... I admire it ... I don't know about you but that seems noble to me ... and If there where more artists like that today ... There carrears would last more then 15 minutes ... So in my eyes ... (Even if David wasn't my favorite temptation) He did the right thing ... and Chances are if he was still alive he would STILL be singing ... and most likly he would do it all over again ... But you know that's just my opinion ;D Look Mike my first long post! aren't you proud .... lol DAMN PROUD ! DAMN TRUE ! |
|
|
|
Post by Ivory Fair on Jun 22, 2004 8:49:49 GMT -5
The other shoe finally dropped during a ten-day engagement at a Cleveland hotel supper club called the Versalles. One afternoon before a show, David's driver delivered a message to us: David says that you should carry on and do the show without him. At the time David was involved with one of Dean Martin's daughters and she was opening her own show at the Latin Casino in Cherry Hill. He obviously felt that catching her act was more important than doing ours.
There it is I said when I heard the news, the handwriting is on the wall. Ruffin's got to go. ~ "Temptations" by Otis Williams p. 133 (2nd edition.)
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeNYC on Jun 22, 2004 10:30:03 GMT -5
The other shoe finally dropped during a ten-day engagement at a Cleveland hotel supper club called the Versalles. One afternoon before a show, David's driver delivered a message to us: David says that you should carry on and do the show without him. At the time David was involved with one of Dean Martin's daughters and she was opening her own show at the Latin Casino in Cherry Hill. He obviously felt that catching her act was more important than doing ours.
There it is I said when I heard the news, the handwriting is on the wall. Ruffin's got to go. ~ "Temptations" by Otis Williams p. 133 (2nd edition.) Hearsay. Do YOU recall David missing a show that he was supposed to be at and wasn't? One that YOU attended? Not Otis' untruths. Nobody can actually vouch for this. I haven't crossed paths with ANYONE that can back this up. Now,since you want to talk about the revised edition of Otis' book,can you reprint,with page number wher he says something about the first printing ,he didn't say everything he wanted to...now that David & Eddie are dead(stop smiling) he can say things that he didn't say before? I think the board would like to see this. ;D |
|
