IS HELL FOR REAL

[Dbaby]

BrunnenG said:

Feeling better baby??


...all I need...

My mono's all gone! But this week kinda sucked majorly. My brother, whom I trust more than anyone in the entire world, lied to me. The guy I've been dating since the first week in August dumped me. I got a 14% on a Chemistry test that I REALLY needed to pass, but I have a more literature based mind than a numerical based mind, so no matter how much I study it doesn't seem to help. And to top it all off, someone broke into my car. They didn't take anything because they couldn't get the stero out of my car, but they left their screw drivers on my seat and my door open and now I'm afraid of people! Ok, sorry! My personal pitty party it over now. This just really hasn't been my week. But it's getting better!

[brunneng]

Dbaby said:

My mono's all gone! But this week kinda sucked majorly. My brother, whom I trust more than anyone in the entire world, lied to me. The guy I've been dating since the first week in August dumped me. I got a 14% on a Chemistry test that I REALLY needed to pass, but I have a more literature based mind than a numerical based mind, so no matter how much I study it doesn't seem to help. And to top it all off, someone broke into my car. They didn't take anything because they couldn't get the stero out of my car, but they left their screw drivers on my seat and my door open and now I'm afraid of people! Ok, sorry! My personal pitty party it over now. This just really hasn't been my week. But it's getting better!

Wow! Awful! Poor baby! :comfort

I recently had FIVE of my relatives end up in the emergency room at four different hospitals. November blew!

But, things are getting better. Hey, you have your fun May trip to look forward to!

Hang in there baby!!


(Kool-aid, of course!)


...you're my everything...

[nateboomer]

Dbaby said:

I dunno. I'm just one of those people who doesn't give the Bible any credibility because God didn't write it. I mean, Moses was a drunk. I understand it was divinly inspired, but if someone actually was divinly inspired today, do you honestly thing anyone would believe him/her and treat their writings as gosple? I don't mean to get into an argument or anything about it. I'm one of those people who knows I'm going straight to hell. In Dante's Inferno, I'd be in the 8th circle, 10th bolgia, right next to the dead center of hell with all the falsifiers because I lie about where I am all the time. I believe in God because I pray when I'm scared, but the rest of the time I don't feel like I do. This actually really bothers me, otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. It just feels like my faith has slipped from me and no matter what I do, I can't seem to make myself want to bring it back. I hate going to church, I hate everything that deals with organized religion because I see all these loop holes and hypricritical statements and beliefs everytime I look at it, and... I hate feeling this way. I really wish I could have some faith; I do! It just feels like God doesn't want me to or something.

Little help here?

Dbaby, if you want faith, ask God. You will never be able to acquire it on your own. He must remove the veil so that your spiritual eyes will be opened.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

Usually, a barrier to faith is revealed through an attitude that short-circuits a person’s trust in God.
Simply put, it is anything that blocks our faith in Christ. When this happens, the power of God is hindered in our lives.

No matter how tangled your past may seem, God has a plan for your life. He is not as interested in what you once were as He is in whom you are today. Once you accept the atoning death of His Son as payment for your sins, your eternal destiny is changed. You become a child of God, and your future becomes one of hope and eternal blessing.

God's heart grieves about the things that you hate also about so-called "religion" Dbaby.

Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I cannot stand your solemn assemblies.

Amo 5:22 Though you offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings...........

Amo 5:23 Take away from me the noise of your songs; for I will not hear the melody of your harps.

He wants our love and wants to love us.

Religion is something to believe and do:
Attending religious services
Enrolling children in religious schools
Showing acts of kindness
Avoiding immorality
Believing in God
Having religious affiliation
Being baptized
Receiving communion
Studying doctrine
Reading the Scriptures
Offering prayers.
Celebrating religious events
Teaching religious classes
Giving aid to the poor
Singing in the choir
Being recognized as a godly person

Christ is Someone to know and trust:
Someone who is very near
Someone who has authority to help us
Someone who can forgive us
Someone who can declare us righteous
Someone who can set us apart for God
Someone who can bring God to us
Someone who can bring us to God
Someone who can include us in His will
Someone who can guide us
Someone who can teach us
Someone who can be our example
Someone who never leaves us all alone
Someone who can be trusted
Someone who can defend us
Someone who can intercede for us
Someone who can enable us
Someone who can respond to our emotions
Someone who can feel our pain
Someone who can give us joy
Someone who can give us peace
Someone who can give us hope
Someone who can give us love
Someone who has proven His love for us
Someone who has died for us
Someone who rose from the dead for us
Someone who can live His life through us
Someone who can take us all the way Home
Someone who can assure us of heaven

Who wrote the Bible?
Less than ordinary men inspired by God. About 40 authors wrote the scriptuers over a 1,500 year period. They came from varied parts of the middle east. They wrote in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They came from all walks of life and jelh many different jobs such as fishermen, tax collectors, doctors, rulers, shepherds and prophets. The miracle of the Bible is that even though many of these men never met and wrote in different languages over 15 centuries, it is in complete harmony and thoroughly consistent without contradictions.

It contains history, poetry, biographies, and prophecy, yet the entire Bible is themed around Jesus Christ. It has been translated into over 1,200 languages, is available in every nation, and has been the number one selling book of all time year after year. Yet many have judged this book without ever having read it. Many are quick to quote things they believe are writen in it but actually are not and much confusion has arisen because of this. There are however two ways to read the Bible, with an open or a closed heart. When we read the Bible with a closed heart we twist it to conform to our earthly desires but when we allow God open our hearts when we delve into it, the Word of God transforms us.

God uses outcasts and people who had terrible fautls to accomplish his will:
Noah-heavy drinker
Moses--lied about his marriage
Jacob- schemed to get his brother's birthright
Lot-incest
Samson-slept with prostitues
King David-murderer and adulterer
Rahab-prostiture
Solomon- idol worshipper and the list goes on.

Talk about mystery movies and novels
the Bible has all of it! God doesn't hide anything.
that shows us that no matter how far we have fallen in life, God can forgive and use us if we would but trust Him.
Isa 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near:

God Bless You

..."and i love you, better than anyone before"

-Nate "Boomer"

[earthangel]

I haven't even read over all the posts, but I saw the title of this hread and all I have to say is "Yes...it's real".

[brunneng]

Dbaby said:

I dunno. I'm just one of those people who doesn't give the Bible any credibility because God didn't write it. I mean, Moses was a drunk. I understand it was divinly inspired, but if someone actually was divinly inspired today, do you honestly thing anyone would believe him/her and treat their writings as gosple? I don't mean to get into an argument or anything about it. I'm one of those people who knows I'm going straight to hell. In Dante's Inferno, I'd be in the 8th circle, 10th bolgia, right next to the dead center of hell with all the falsifiers because I lie about where I am all the time. I believe in God because I pray when I'm scared, but the rest of the time I don't feel like I do. This actually really bothers me, otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. It just feels like my faith has slipped from me and no matter what I do, I can't seem to make myself want to bring it back. I hate going to church, I hate everything that deals with organized religion because I see all these loop holes and hypricritical statements and beliefs everytime I look at it, and... I hate feeling this way. I really wish I could have some faith; I do! It just feels like God doesn't want me to or something.

Little help here?

Yo baby,

I wouldn't worry about eternal damnation! Hell is for someone like Adolph Hitler (go look up his record under crimes against humanity). Just because you are at your ex-boyfriend's house when you say you are somewhere else doesn't make you a bad person.

I've got t-shirts older than you. Your life is just beginning. Live it and love it, okay?

:hug


...you've got a smile so bright...

[nateboomer]

BrunnenG said:

Yo baby,

I wouldn't worry about eternal damnation! Hell is for someone like Adolph Hitler (go look up his record under crimes against humanity). Just because you are at your ex-boyfriend's house when you say you are somewhere else doesn't make you a bad person.

I've got t-shirts older than you. Your life is just beginning. Live it and love it, okay?




...you've got a smile so bright...

In a "BIBLICAL" world view, i repeat, "BIBLICAL" world view and what Jesus taught, hell is for anyone, no matter how good you are, think you are or ever will be, who doesn't receive Jesus as Lord. He says, "no one comes to the Father but by me". Again, this is a "BIBLICAL" world view, not Buddhism, Hinduism or any other "religion". No one is forced to accept Christ. Maybe to those who don't hold to Christian beliefs don't worry about eternal damnation, and they have every right to believe and choose what they want. However, this doesn't make the reality of eternal seperation from God unreal.

To God, sin is sin, no matter how big or small. Even people as evil as Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Charles Manson, Jack the Rippper and anyone who has committed the most heinous crimes in history could receive eternal life with God if they truly confessed their sins and received Jesus as Lord and Savior before they died. On the other side of the coin, according to "Christian Beliefs, the Bible and what Jesus taught, you can be the most righteous, upright person that ever lived, yet, without Christ they cannot know everlasting life. That is a very hard concept to accept. But that is because we want to get to heaven on our terms and not God's.

There is a misconception about Christians. People think that we don't have fun, want to stop people from having fun, force our views on people and are just downright boring. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite losing my entire immediate family, having my finacee tell me she didn't love me anymore, this is the most exciting time of peace, joy and loving and living of life that i have ever known. Not to be in bondage of gambling, drinking, depression and every whim of desire that came my way is "Outasight!!" Jesus said, "i am come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly."

There are those who try to hide their Christain beliefs to either be popular or acccepted. I will not hide my loyalty to Christ. I'll always speak of his message of everlasting love, salvation and life eternal with him no matter what it may cost me.

As Paul (of the bible) said, "Have i now become your enemy, by telling you the truth?"

-Nate "Boomer"

"You ain't got no harp so you can play me a song so sweet. You ain't got no golden slipper on your pretty litte feet. But to me you're an Angel. To me you're an Angel. You're not an ordinary girl, because you're an Angel to me."

[earthangel]

nateboomer said:

In a "BIBLICAL" world view, i repeat, "BIBLICAL" world view and what Jesus taught, hell is for anyone, no matter how good you are, think you are or ever will be, who doesn't receive Jesus as Lord. He says, "no one comes to the Father but by me". Again, this is a "BIBLICAL" world view, not Buddhism, Hinduism or any other "religion". No one is forced to accept Christ. Maybe to those who don't hold to Christian beliefs don't worry about eternal damnation, and they have every right to believe and choose what they want. However, this doesn't make the reality of eternal seperation from God unreal.

:clapping: :clapping: What a great way to put it...couldnna said it any better myself :clapping: :clapping:

[Beej]

Is there a Hell? For that much, is there a Heaven? Is there a God?

My answer to all three would be no...or, at least, I don't believe so.

That's what it really comes down to: Belief. The truth is that those who believe in the existence of a Hell, a Heaven or even a Creator have no more tangible proof than someone, like myself, who believes all three are merely creations of man and that everything can (eventually) be explained through scientific method. They're such fascinating questions to consider, though, that they really deserve more than simple 'yes' or 'no' responses.

My position is that the concepts of gods, goddesses, demons, spiritual realms and the afterlife have been used by nearly every culture (to varying degrees) throughout history to explain the seemingly unexplainable...because the science of the time could not adequately satisfy human curiosity. We are a species that NEEDS answers and -- devoid of sufficient scientific explanation -- people often turn to the mystical or spiritual realm for resolution. It doesn't matter that they can't provide proof -- a necessity in the world of science; they believe it to be the only explanation, so it must be true.

Social pressure and fear have always been more than enough to keep beliefs in place from one generation to the next. That's not to suggest, however, that most people of faith are coerced. Quite the opposite, my experience has been that people of faith -- whether it be moderate or strong -- are that way largely by choice.

I admire their conviction...I just disagree with the premise.

Man's existence on earth amounts to little more than the blink of an eye by cosmic standards; of that, advanced scientific research and discovery is but a minute fraction. We've learned so much about this planet's life processes and, yet, still know so little. I firmly believe, however, that there will come a time when man has a definitve answer to the question we're REALLY asking when we ponder Heaven, Hell and the like: "How did we get here?" It may take thousands of years, but the pieces of the puzzle are out there waiting to be joined. We simply don't have the knowledge to recognize or connect them, yet.

Nothing aggravates me more than when people who claim to be atheists (but are really just obnoxious elitists looking for new ways to tear down the influence of Christianity in America) answer these questions by attacking organized religion. Pointing out the corruption, bigotry, ignorance and hypocrisy of man does nothing to resolve these questions one way or the other. Humans are flawed...we know that...but those flaws are not exclusive to believers, non-believers or any specific religion.

I don't have to believe in God to recognize the strength, solace, guidance and joy some people receive from their faith. Nor, do I have to believe in God to appreciate and respect the benefits of traditional Judeo-Christian values to this country's history; as far as I'm concerned, the basic tenets of Christianity provide a common sense, productive approach for living one's life. Attempts by radicals to remove these principles and influences from society have done -- and will continue to do -- more harm than good.

Unlike those individuals, however, I differentiate between theology and the institutions of organized religion...and I can peacefully and respectfully co-exist with people of varying faiths without having any desire to infringe on their rights to worship or convert them to my beliefs.

At the end of the day, the truth is none of us is equipped to prove or disprove the existence of God, Heaven or Hell. We are introduced to a set of beliefs at an early age and go forward from there. I think many of us reach a point as young adults -- or through traumatic experiences -- where we begin to question those beliefs. Most stand by their faith -- whether it's for reasons of personal inspiration, guidance and strength or simply out of a fear over the possible repercussions of not believing -- but others, like me, see the whole equation and aren't satisfied with the popular conclusion.

In my beliefs, you're born and you die...what happens in between is your one chance at life. How you conduct yourself and what you accomplish during that time affect the quality of your existence. It doesn't depress or frighten me to consider this is "all there is." I acknowledge that each time the sun sets, I have one less day on earth...but death is never a concern; I don't view my life by how many days I have remaining, but by how many new opportunities and experiences are on the horizon. My goal is to make the most of this life...through laughter, love and generosity; each time I'm able to bring a smile to someone else's face, my own existence is validated that little bit more.

Do I have regrets? Absolutely. Do I wish I could go back in time and do some things differently? You bet. That's called having a conscience...and it's a product of humanity, not any specific set of religious philosophies.

That said, I accept the possibility that I could be COMPLETELY wrong...but it's something I've given considerable thought and I'm pretty comfortable (and confident) with the path I've chosen. ;D



Sorry to put you through this long explanation, but the discussion was rather lop-sided up to this point and I felt my answer required a little background on my beliefs to be taken in the proper context. It's not as though atheism is widely accepted...or even understood, for that matter. The people you see on TV -- the ones trying to remove religion from every facet of American public life -- do not represent me or any other non-believer I know. They are to atheism what pedophile priests are to the Catholic faith...a disgrace, an embarrassment and an unfair, inaccurate, unfortunate reflection on the masses.


If you've read this far...thank you. If you're a person of strong faith and feel this post deserves a rebuttal (and I have a feeling there might be a few of you out there), please keep these things in mind before doing so...

- I do not worship Satan;
- I do not want to remove (or even restrict) your right to practice your faith;
- I do not want to remove Christmas trees or Nativity scenes from public viewing;
- I am not "angry at God";
- I am not "confused" about my beliefs;
- I am not "lost" or in need of guidance;
- I am not "trying to be different" or "looking for attention";
- I do not wish to be converted...if my beliefs change, it will occur naturally;
- I do not wish to debate the veracity of our respective beliefs; they are, after all, beliefs...and not one of us can realisitcally claim sole-possession of THE TRUTH;

I only ask that you be open-minded enough to consider my words in the context of this discussion and offer my beliefs the same respect and thoughtfulness I will continue to extend toward yours.

[curet30]

Dbaby said:

I dunno. I'm just one of those people who doesn't give the Bible any credibility because God didn't write it. I mean, Moses was a drunk. I understand it was divinly inspired, but if someone actually was divinly inspired today, do you honestly thing anyone would believe him/her and treat their writings as gosple? I don't mean to get into an argument or anything about it. I'm one of those people who knows I'm going straight to hell. In Dante's Inferno, I'd be in the 8th circle, 10th bolgia, right next to the dead center of hell with all the falsifiers because I lie about where I am all the time. I believe in God because I pray when I'm scared, but the rest of the time I don't feel like I do. This actually really bothers me, otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. It just feels like my faith has slipped from me and no matter what I do, I can't seem to make myself want to bring it back. I hate going to church, I hate everything that deals with organized religion because I see all these loop holes and hypricritical statements and beliefs everytime I look at it, and... I hate feeling this way. I really wish I could have some faith; I do! It just feels like God doesn't want me to or something.

Little help here?

Hey Dbaby...

A little help on the way. Our pastor has taught us that prayer is a way of communicating with God. Not only when we are fearful, but we should also thank Him for just waking us up this morning and starting us on our way. A prayer does not necessarily have to be on your knees; you can speak (pray) to God sitting at the edge of your bed, asking Him to guide you through the day before you leave your door. Speak to him at the end of your day, thanking Him for bringing you home safely. Little things add up to a lot.

Imagine if your child (when you become a parent) only spoke to you or came to you when they were only in trouble. Wouldn't you want to know how their day went? Perhaps as a child, your parents asked you how your day was at school. The same applies with God. Although he knows all our thoughts, He enjoys communicating with His children.

As far as church is concerned, what are the loopholes you speak of?

[curet30]

Dbaby said:

I dunno. I'm just one of those people who doesn't give the Bible any credibility because God didn't write it. I mean, Moses was a drunk. I understand it was divinly inspired, but if someone actually was divinly inspired today, do you honestly thing anyone would believe him/her and treat their writings as gosple? I don't mean to get into an argument or anything about it. I'm one of those people who knows I'm going straight to hell. In Dante's Inferno, I'd be in the 8th circle, 10th bolgia, right next to the dead center of hell with all the falsifiers because I lie about where I am all the time. I believe in God because I pray when I'm scared, but the rest of the time I don't feel like I do. This actually really bothers me, otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. It just feels like my faith has slipped from me and no matter what I do, I can't seem to make myself want to bring it back. I hate going to church, I hate everything that deals with organized religion because I see all these loop holes and hypricritical statements and beliefs everytime I look at it, and... I hate feeling this way. I really wish I could have some faith; I do! It just feels like God doesn't want me to or something.

Little help here?

Some more help for ya Dbaby. This concerns the Bible as being the Word of God, written by God through men.

FULFILLMENT OF BIBLICAL PROPHECY
Another pivotal proof supporting the accuracy and divine authorship of the Bible centers upon the issue of prophetic fulfillment. The Bible is saturated with specific prophecies concerning nations, cities, historic events and individuals. But what lends such an overwhelming credibility to the divine origin of these prophecies is the fact that hundreds have been literally fulfilled in the most minute detail. In fact, so convincing is the proof that God Himself established the issue of prophetic fulfillment as a legitimate test of divine authorship and authenticity (Isaiah 41:21-23, 46)

A classic example of the many remarkable fulfillments which could be sited1 involves the 6th century BC prediction of the overthrow of the city of Tyre (Ezekial 26). Seven specific things were predicted, each of which was literally fulfilled to the letter during the 4th century BC. The mathematical probability of this happening has been calculated to equal 1 in 75,000,000.2

Probably the most amazing series of prophetic fulfillments involves the multitude of Messianic predictions concerning Christ. The Old Testament contains 332 specific prophecies which were literally fulfilled by Christ.3 This fact not only establishes His divine credentials, but substantiates the divine authorship of the Bible as well.

The following are 26 selected examples of over 300 distinct prophecies relating to Christ: born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2/Luke 2:4-7); born of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10/Luke 3:23,33); born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14/Matthew 1:18, 24,25); referred to as Immanuel (Isaiah 7:14/Matthew 1:23); He would be king (Psalm 2:6/Matthew 27:37); He would be preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3/Matthew 3:1,2); entered into Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9/Luke 19:35-37); rejected by his own people (Isaiah 53:3/John 7:5, 48); betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9/Matthew 10:4); betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12/ Matthew 26:15); silver thrown into the temple (Zechariah 11:13/Matthew 27:5); money used to purchase a potter's field (Zechariah 11:3/Matthew 27:7); forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7/Mark 14:50); wounded and bruised (Isaiah 53:5/Matthew 27:26); smitten and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6/Matthew 26:67); mocked (Psalm 20:7,8/Matthew 27:31) didn't answer His accusers (Isaiah 53:7/Matthew 27:12-19); hands and feet pierced (Psalm 22:16/Luke 23:33); crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12/Matthew 27:38); made intercession for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12/Luke 23:34); lots cast for His garments (Psalm 22:18/John 19:23,24); given gall and vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21/Matthew 27:34); bones were not broken (Psalm 34:20/John 19:33); His side pierced (Zechariah 12:10/John 19:34); buried in a rich man's tomb (Isaiah 53:9/Matthew 27:57-60); ascended to God (Psalm 68:18/Acts 1:9)

1. Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands A Verdict, pp. 284-331
2. Peter W. Stoner, Science Speaks, pg 80
3. Floyd Hamilton, The Basis Of Christian Faith, pg 160

Now these 26 fulfilled prophecies, which were written by at least 4 men over more than several hundred years, cannot be just a coincidence - truly some divine intervention took place here... wouldn't you agree? ;D

But wait, there's more...

[curet30]

Dbaby said:

I dunno. I'm just one of those people who doesn't give the Bible any credibility because God didn't write it. I mean, Moses was a drunk. I understand it was divinly inspired, but if someone actually was divinly inspired today, do you honestly thing anyone would believe him/her and treat their writings as gosple? I don't mean to get into an argument or anything about it. I'm one of those people who knows I'm going straight to hell. In Dante's Inferno, I'd be in the 8th circle, 10th bolgia, right next to the dead center of hell with all the falsifiers because I lie about where I am all the time. I believe in God because I pray when I'm scared, but the rest of the time I don't feel like I do. This actually really bothers me, otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. It just feels like my faith has slipped from me and no matter what I do, I can't seem to make myself want to bring it back. I hate going to church, I hate everything that deals with organized religion because I see all these loop holes and hypricritical statements and beliefs everytime I look at it, and... I hate feeling this way. I really wish I could have some faith; I do! It just feels like God doesn't want me to or something.

Little help here?

Dbaby

...one final look at Divine authorship.

THE LAW OF COMPOUND PROBABILITIES
Simply stated, the law of compound probabilities is a mathematical law, which can be used to calculate the probability of a specific set of conditions, requirements or qualifications being fulfilled.

Professor Peter W. Stoner used this law to determine the odds of a certain proscribed number of biblical prophecies relating to Christ being fulfilled.1 His findings were carefully evaluated by the American Scientific Affiliation and found to be sound and convincing.2 His findings rule out coincidence, chance or human manipulation in the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

Stoner started by calculating the probability if one lone individual precisely fulfilling only eight prophesies relating to Christ. He computed the odds at 1 in 10 17. This is the same as 1 followed by 17 zeros. This would be the equivalent of covering the entire state of Texas 2 feet deep in silver dollars, specifically marking one of them and instructing a blindfolded man to pick up the right silver dollar on the first try.

Dr. Stoner then computed the odds of one individual of fulfilling just 16 prophecies relating to Christ. He calculated the odds at 1 x 10 45 power or 1 followed by 45 zeros. The sun is 93 million miles from the earth. However of you had this many silver dollars, you could build a stellar ball which would extend 20 times farther than the sun. The probability of fulfilling just 16 prophecies would be the equivalent of specifically marking just one silver dollar in that massive ball, blindfolding a man and instructing him to successfully pick the right silver dollar on the first try!

Stoner further calculated 48 prophecies at 1 x 10 157. This figure is astronomical and beyond human comprehension but Christ fulfilled over 300 distinct prophecies! These calculations prove the divine authorship of the scriptures beyond any reasonable or conceivable shadow of a doubt.

1. Peter W. Stoner, Science Speaks
2. H. Harold Hartzler, American Scientific Affiliation

[curet30]

NATEBOOMER....

Ever thought about bringing the word to a congregation as a guest speaker... perhaps like in Harlem...maybe??

[nateboomer]

curet30 said:

NATEBOOMER....

Ever thought about bringing the word to a congregation as a guest speaker... perhaps like in Harlem...maybe??

I can't say that i've given being a guest speaker much thought. However, i do believe through my songs, there are messages of compassion. In almost every song there is a subliminal message of the love of God or a biblical principle. You have to listen closely to hear them. The gospel CD that i am working on now is a personal testimony, with song titles like, "I Will Not Bow", "If God Be For You," "I Desire To Do Your Will" and "You Must Forgive". Even the love ballad album after that one, "Whisper Love"will be one of a deeper love than the heart and soul has ever experienced.

I think that my role is to bring the truth no matter how much it hurts. When i see some tel-evangelists with mega churches preaching things that are either not in the bible or twisting scripture to justify there lavish life styles ( don't get me wrong, i am not saying that if you like nice things or you have boo coo money that it is wrong. You can be a billionaire and as long as you know who gave it to you and what God expects of you) I just want to jump into that screen on that stage and yell to the church goers, "Wake up!! You're being Deceived!!.

I used to like a lot of these guys on a certain Christian station, but after searching the scriptures and listening to sound doctrine, i realize that many of them have given the saying, "fleecing the flock" a whole new meaning. The killng part is that they have thousands upon thousands of church members, filling up auditoriums and stadiums and relegating God to a status of "by my word, God must do what "I" say'. Baloney! God says "I will show compassion to whom I will and I will show mercy to whom I will." In other words, God can and will do what He wants, When He wants and how He wants whether we like it or agree with it or not.

Yet who knows curet30, God isn't finished with me yet. He says, "I know the plans that i have for you. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future." We must know the word and rightly divide the truth.

"My people perish for a "LACK OF KNOWLEDGE."

-"Nate "Boomer"

[nateboomer]

Beej i could write all night to answer your post (and i don't mind) However, i think the posts of curet30 contain irrefutable evidence.

Here are six reasons that answers:
Does God exist? Is there proof of God? The following offers candid, straight-forward reasons to believe in the existence of God...

By Marilyn Adamson

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Satellite footage of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if He is there, He says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know Him?

Here then, are some reasons to consider...


1. Does God exist? Throughout history, in all cultures of the world, people have been convinced there is a God.
Billions of people, who represent diverse sociological, intellectual, emotional, educational makeups...believe that there is a Creator, a God to be worshipped. Now, the fact that so many people believe something certainly doesn't make it true. But when so many people through the ages are so personally convinced that God exists, can one say with absolute confidence that they are all mistaken?
"Anthropological research has indicated that among the farthest and most remote primitive people today, there is a universal belief in God. And in the earliest histories and legends of people all around the world, the original concept was of one God, who was the Creator. An original high God seems once to have been in their consciousness even in those societies which are today polytheistic."3


2. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.4 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet it restrains our massive oceans from spilling over across the continents.5

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.6

Water is also chemically inert. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.7

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of this article in your hand. Your brain registers emotional responses, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.8 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information...can we say mere chance brought about such an astounding organ?

When NASA launches a shuttle mission, it is assumed a monkey didn't write the plan, but intelligent and knowledgeable minds. How does one explain the existence of the human brain? Only a mind more intelligent and knowledgeable than humanity could have created the human brain.


3. Does God exist? Mere "chance" is not an adequate explanation of creation.
Imagine looking at Mount Rushmore, in which the likenesses of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt are carved. Could you ever believe that it came about by chance? Given infinite time, wind, rain and chance, it is still hard to believe something like that, tied to history, was randomly formed in the side of a mountain. Common sense tells us that people planned and skillfully carved those figures.
This article only touches on a few amazing aspects of our world: the Earth's position to the sun, some properties of water, one organ in the human body. Could any of these have come about by chance?

The distinguished astronomer Sir Frederick Hoyle showed how amino acids randomly coming together in a human cell is mathematically absurd. Sir Hoyle illustrated the weakness of "chance" with the following analogy. "What are the chances that a tornado might blow through a junkyard containing all the parts of a 747, accidentally assemble them into a plane, and leave it ready for take-off? The possibilities are so small as to be negligible even if a tornado were to blow through enough junkyards to fill the whole universe!"9

When one considers the intricacies of our life and universe, it is reasonable to think that an intelligent, loving Creator provided for everything we need for life. The Bible describes God as the author and sustainer of life.

That's only 3 reasons. 4,5 and 6 to come.

-Nate "Boomer"

[nateboomer]

Does God exist?-continued-

4. Does God exist? Humankind's inherent sense of right and wrong cannot be biologically explained.
There arises in all of us, of any culture, universal feelings of right and wrong. Even a thief gets upset and feels wronged when someone steals from him. If someone violently grabs a child from a family and rapes that child, there is an anger and revulsion and a rage to confront that act as evil, regardless of the culture. Where did we get this sense of wrongness? How do we explain a universal law in the conscience of all people that says murder for fun is wrong?
And in areas like courage, dying for a cause, love, dignity, duty and compassion, where did these come from? If people are merely products of physical evolution, "survival of the fittest," why do we sacrifice for each other? Where did we get this inner sense of right and wrong? Our conscience can best be explained by a loving Creator who cares about the decisions and harmony of humanity.


5. Does God exist? God not only has revealed Himself in what can be observed in nature, and in human life, but He has even more specifically shown Himself in the Bible.
God's thoughts, personality, and attitudes can only be known if God chooses to reveal them. All else would be human speculation. We are at a loss if God does not wish to be known. But God wants us to know Him and has told us in the Bible all we need to know about His character and how to relate to Him. This makes the reliability of the Bible an important consideration.
Archaeological findings continue to confirm rather than refute the accuracy of the Bible. For example, an archeological find in northern Israel in August 1993 confirmed the existence of King David, author of many of the Psalms in the Bible.10 The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological discoveries continue to substantiate the historical accuracy of the Bible.

The Bible was written over a 1500-year span, by 40 different authors, in different locations and on separate continents, written in three different languages, covering diverse subject matters at different points in history.11 Yet there is an astounding consistency in its message. Throughout the entire Bible the same message appears:

God created the world we live in, and created us specifically to have a relationship with Him.
He deeply loves us.
We have sinned and are under God's judgment, in need of His forgiveness.
God provided a way for our sins to be forgiven.
He asks us to receive His forgiveness and have a relationship with Him that will last eternally.
Along with this central script, the Bible specifically reveals God's character. Psalm 145 is a typical summary of God's personality, thoughts and feelings toward us. If you want to know God, here He is.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at Him. Though He talked about His Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in Him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."12 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."13

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because He constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.14

What did Jesus reveal about God's personality? What about God's thoughts, expectations and His feelings toward humankind? Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of His punishment, His love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God would have His Son receive the punishment for our sin. And Jesus willingly accepted this plan.

Jesus was tortured with a whip of nine sharp-tipped ends. A "crown" of two-inch thorns was pressed into his head. Then they secured Him to a cross by pounding nails through His hands and feet into the wood. Given His other miracles, those nails didn't keep Him on the cross; His love for us did. Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with Him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to Himself. Because of Jesus' death we can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. God says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."15 This is God, in action.

The most conclusive proof that Jesus is equal to God was Jesus' most closely scrutinized miracle - His own resurrection from the dead. Jesus said that three days after His burial He would come back to life. On the third day after His crucifixion, the almost two-ton boulder in front of His tomb was catapulted up a slope.16 The guard of well-trained Roman soldiers saw a blinding light and an angel. The tomb was empty, except for the burial clothes that had been wrapped around Jesus' body. Over the years, legal, historical and logical analysis has been applied to Jesus' resurrection and the most feasible conclusion still is that Jesus rose from the dead.

Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."17

Do you want to begin a relationship with God and actually know you are accepted by Him?

This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with Him, you can do so right now by asking Him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."18 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. Thank you that you want a relationship with me. Amen."

God views your relationship with Him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in Him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."19

So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way. If you need more information about Jesus' claim to divinity, or about God's existence, or if you have similar important questions, please email us at: EveryStudent.com



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I just asked Jesus into my life (some helpful information follows)...
I may want to ask Jesus into my life, please explain this more fully...

I have a question...



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About the Author:
As a former atheist, Marilyn Adamson found it difficult to refute the continuously answered prayers and quality of life of a close friend. In challenging the beliefs of her friend, Marilyn was amazed to learn the wealth of objective evidence pointing to the existence of God. After about a year of persistent questioning, she responded to God's offer to come into her life and has found faith in Him to be constantly substantiated and greatly rewarding.

(1) Romans 1:19-21
(2) Jeremiah 29:13-14
(3) Paul E. Little, Know Why You Believe (Victor Books, 1988), p. 22
(4) R.E.D. Clark, Creation (London: Tyndale Press, 1946), p. 20
(5) The Wonders of God's Creation, Moody Institute of Science (Chicago, IL)
(6) Ibid.
(7) Ibid.
(8) Ibid.
(9) Little, p. 24
(10) Thomas McCall, "The Stone of the House of David," The Levitt Letter (Zola Levitt Ministries), September 1993
(11) Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands A Verdict (San Bernardino, CA: Here's Life Publishers, 1979), p. 16
(12) John 8:12
(13) John 14:6
(14) John 14:11
(15) Jeremiah 31:3
(16) Josh McDowell, More Than A Carpenter (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House, 1977), p. 90-91
(17) John 3:16
(18) Revelation 3:20
(19) John 10:27-29

Rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."-Jesus

-Nate "Boomer"