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Post by kalisa2 on Jul 27, 2004 17:06:16 GMT -5
What I'm trying to say is that we don't KNOW Otis's "agenda", since most of us don't KNOW Otis period. His book was titled "The Temptations", a story about the rise (and fall) of the Greatest Group in the World. It isn't "Otis Williams Autobiography", though of course any story about Otis Williams would include the Temptations. But "ain't nobody coming to see YOU, Otis"...if it were strictly the Life Story of Otis Williams with nothing but occasional honorable mention about the other guys, nobody would care or read it.
He was telling HIS view of the beginnings and the problems that caused the group to break up. Now, most people are going to see only their side, and try to minimize their own faults, when talking about themselves in that context. That's just human nature, to try to present ourselves in the best light possible.
But the group broke up. If everything was going along fine and everybody were happy campers, the group would not have broken up. It sure makes no sense that Otis would want to kill the goose that was laying golden eggs by trying to oust other more talented and more well-known members for his own hidden agenda. They shared the $$ equally as far as is known on record, so why would he rock that boat? So obviously those other people did SOMEthing that caused them to be out of the group. Otis wrote a book about it and gave HIS view of what happened, what went wrong. Whether he was completely candid or not, the other members played some role in their own exits from the group, and that's what Otis gave us.
As far as the lead article here, we will have to agree to disagree, Mike. It was Eddie talking to a reporter and it was published and he knew it was going to be published. I don't know the source article, whether it was local or not. Or whether it was picked up nationally or not. But he said it to a reporter, and intimated that Paul had a drinking problem that he had resolved. Nit picking doesn't take away from the fact that Paul's drinking was reported in print before Otis ever put pen to paper. Friend or not (and I respect that view, EddiesLuv, giving props to Eddie because he WAS a friend and showed it in more than just words (ie. Otis's "I loved the guy"'s don't wash without actions such as Eddie's backing Paul up and helping with a comeback)).
LOL, why'm I bothering on this anymore? It just goes round and round.
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Post by EddiesLuv on Jul 27, 2004 17:11:12 GMT -5
Eddie'sLuv: The question about Paul's Sickle Cell and Motown 25 has mystified me since I first saw the video (I missed the original show). Because at the time I saw the show I had read Paul's family website and knew of the sickle cell, and thought when I saw the first SC presentation on the show that somewhere during the show mention would be made of Paul. But ... if 'nobody' knew of it at the time of Motown 25, then maybe we can surmise Otis didn't know about it back before Paul died. Maybe he doesn't know of it today? The only source I've seen regarding Paul and sickle cell has been his family's website...as far as I know, Otis doesn't spend his off-time scouring the internet for information about the Temptations like we/I do  . Paul died in 1973. Sickle cell anemia had just begun to really be publicized. I remember the first time I heard about it was from that Bill Cosby movie when his son was diagnosed with it. It wasn't a pretty sight. Since then I've seen first hand how painful it is and my cousin's girlfriend died at 28 as a victim of the disease. She didn't want anybody to know that she had it. I can see how people would not know that he had it and I can see how Paul would probably not want anybody to know. It was virtually a death sentence back then when life expectancy being so short and all of the problems it causes in between. Maybe Eddie's reference to Paul being a sick man is alluding to that fact. But we'll never know for sure. |
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Post by kalisa2 on Jul 27, 2004 17:51:37 GMT -5
That's what I'm saying, we don't know for sure. It would SEEM (at least to me), that when Eddie said "Paul was a sick man" that he might say something in regard to what illness he was talking about, if he meant something other than the drinking he had previously mentioned a couple of times. But, we don't and can't know. Eddie was, by all reports, a clam...the mere fact that he mentioned drinking more than once says to me it was a problem regardless how others care to take it. Some eye candy for you, EddiesLuv . I didn't know how to get the red out of the one pic, so I went B&W...    That may be the infamous drink of Eddie's that Mike was telling us about |
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Post by EddiesLuv on Jul 27, 2004 18:14:43 GMT -5
That's what I'm saying, we don't know for sure. It would SEEM (at least to me), that when Eddie said "Paul was a sick man" that he might say something in regard to what illness he was talking about, if he meant something other than the drinking he had previously mentioned a couple of times. But, we don't and can't know. Eddie was, by all reports, a clam...the mere fact that he mentioned drinking more than once says to me it was a problem regardless how others care to take it. Some eye candy for you, EddiesLuv . I didn't know how to get the red out of the one pic, so I went B&W... That may be the infamous drink of Eddie's that Mike was telling us about Good Lord! Its over. Thanks so much Kalisa.  And Mike thanks for sharing.  |
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Post by kalisa2 on Jul 27, 2004 18:16:56 GMT -5
And Mike...(you keep alluding to Otis talking about how much alcohol Paul was consuming...I'm assuming it must be in the book which I'm re-reading but haven't got there yet)...
This also was in the lead article, attributed to "friends" (more than one), not attributed to Otis Williams of the Temptations. So again, he was merely repeating what was already 'out there' in print 15 years prior to his book. Was it necessary to include it in the book? Probably not. Was it necessary to include it in a death notice? Probably not. But Otis wasn't the first to say it.
Mike, you've mentioned it and its pretty much gotten lost in some of the other verbiage around here, but I'm interested in what you've mentioned about Paul and scholarships. I've never seen that mentioned elsewhere, do you have a source for it? The only information I personally have seen is that Paul was in pretty deep financial doodoo with back taxes and a failed beauty shop business venture...I'd love to see some of the more positive things expounded on!!
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 27, 2004 20:27:30 GMT -5
And Mike...(you keep alluding to Otis talking about how much alcohol Paul was consuming...I'm assuming it must be in the book which I'm re-reading but haven't got there yet)... This also was in the lead article, attributed to "friends" (more than one), not attributed to Otis Williams of the Temptations. So again, he was merely repeating what was already 'out there' in print 15 years prior to his book. Was it necessary to include it in the book? Probably not. Was it necessary to include it in a death notice? Probably not. But Otis wasn't the first to say it. Mike, you've mentioned it and its pretty much gotten lost in some of the other verbiage around here, but I'm interested in what you've mentioned about Paul and scholarships. I've never seen that mentioned elsewhere, do you have a source for it? The only information I personally have seen is that Paul was in pretty deep financial doodoo with back taxes and a failed beauty shop business venture...I'd love to see some of the more positive things expounded on!! Who's that in them photos? Yes,that's the picture that I was talking about. I assure you that I don't have a drinking problem! LOL ! Soul did six issues to the Tempts around 1970. In the Otis article ,he said that he would jot things down over the years. Melvin was a comic book nut. He loved Batman. He also said that when Paul was out,he would sing Paul's parts,which Paul vouched for. Mel said that they could go on with four,he made it sound like they practiced like that in the event someone was out. Paul touched on why he would be out. They even had a picture of his business partner Winnie Brown. My thing is that seems like nobody wants to say anything about the positive things in Paul's life. I'm not trying to put blame on anyone,I just wonder why nobody seeks to find these things. I admire you Kalisa because you will read it all. I've told you this before. Paul was hardly a skid row bum. He was nowhere near a wineo. But it seems like the positive things don't sell books. Sure,Otis can write anything he wants to,I just remember how upset he was when the article that I posted on Dennis came out. You talked about it in one of your posts. If you can see it,why can't everyone else? That's why I take exception to Otis' book. Dennis didn't get personal,he just told about the way things were. David missed being in the group. He said so. He yried to go on ,but when his first single was released,folks went to the record store asking for "My Whole World Ended...by the Temptations. That was the problem. It's easier to control a group as opposed to an individual artist. The Supremes were charting right out of the starting gate while Diana was struggling on the charts. Why? Drugs,Drinking? |
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Post by Temptress on Jul 27, 2004 20:37:22 GMT -5
I like the photos especially the ones with Little Mikey aint he cute yall! ;D
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Post by Coey on Jul 27, 2004 20:46:21 GMT -5
Awwwwww... Look at that. What a little cutey! *S*
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Post by Temptress on Jul 27, 2004 21:02:20 GMT -5
And what nice threads........................he has on  ! WOW Eddie kendericks :inlove |
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 27, 2004 21:09:03 GMT -5
Awwwwww... Look at that. What a little cutey! *S* Yeah,Eddie was young little somthin' in 1969.Like he said when I showed him the picture,"We were two sharp cats!" |
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Post by EddiesLuv on Jul 27, 2004 21:51:13 GMT -5
Who's that in them photos? Yes,that's the picture that I was talking about. I assure you that I don't have a drinking problem! LOL ! Soul did six issues to the Tempts around 1970. In the Otis article ,he said that he would jot things down over the years. Melvin was a comic book nut. He loved Batman. He also said that when Paul was out,he would sing Paul's parts,which Paul vouched for. Mel said that they could go on with four,he made it sound like they practiced like that in the event someone was out. Paul touched on why he would be out. They even had a picture of his business partner Winnie Brown. My thing is that seems like nobody wants to say anything about the positive things in Paul's life. I'm not trying to put blame on anyone,I just wonder why nobody seeks to find these things. I admire you Kalisa because you will read it all. I've told you this before. Paul was hardly a skid row bum. He was nowhere near a wineo. But it seems like the positive things don't sell books. Sure,Otis can write anything he wants to,I just remember how upset he was when the article that I posted on Dennis came out. You talked about it in one of your posts. If you can see it,why can't everyone else? That's why I take exception to Otis' book. Dennis didn't get personal,he just told about the way things were. David missed being in the group. He said so. He yried to go on ,but when his first single was released,folks went to the record store asking for "My Whole World Ended...by the Temptations. That was the problem. It's easier to control a group as opposed to an individual artist. The Supremes were charting right out of the starting gate while Diana was struggling on the charts. Why? Drugs,Drinking? Mike, seriously. You have all this info. Its time to do something with it. Only one side has been told. Tell the rest. |
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Post by Coey on Jul 27, 2004 22:36:01 GMT -5
Yeah,Eddie was young little somthin' in 1969.Like he said when I showed him the picture,"We were two sharp cats!" Just kind of makes ya wanna grab lil Mikey and set him at the table and cook for him and make him grow up big and strong.. the only word I can think of is.. Awwwww...... That is a sweet, adorable picture of you. |
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Post by kalisa2 on Jul 27, 2004 23:02:08 GMT -5
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Post by Coey on Jul 27, 2004 23:07:53 GMT -5
Will ya look at how sweet he is!! Girl.. where ARE you getting these pics!.. Thats so cool *s* (ya look a little mischievious in this one)
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Post by kalisa2 on Jul 27, 2004 23:14:54 GMT -5
Mike: Paul touched on why he would be out.
and what did he say? Do you still have the articles?
Mike: My thing is that seems like nobody wants to say anything about the positive things in Paul's life.
I for one would like to hear about them, and asked you once about the scholarships that you've mentioned in the past. I think everyone here would like to know about them.
Mike, I remember the comment made that you took as comparing Paul to a street bum wino...it wasn't intended that way. It was merely a rhetorical question as to why should we have more sympathy for someone with an alcohol problem who also happens to be famous or one of our favorite stars than we have for the street bum wino (who also happens to be somebody's loved one, brother, uncle, father, son) who wasn't gifted with the talent to earn our adulation by singing well or performing on screen or whatever. That was the gist of the question, not to make the comparison you're putting in there. It was just pointing out the fact that both are humans with frailties and equally deserving of our sympathy and help or whatever.
***correct me if I'm wrong Ivory...that was the way *I* read what was said.
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