Article re: Paul's death

[EddiesLuv]

kim said:

I see no need for Eddie to run his friend down one day after his death. I don't see this as making sense of his death I see this as running off at the mouth. He had nothing to gain, then why say it in the first place?

You and I see it differently. Its easy to say what someone should say or shouldn't say in grief if in fact he was grieving. I don't know I wasn't there. Whether he should have kept his mouth shut or not is a matter of opinion. But I'll tell you one thing, he was Paul's friend and I will give him a pass on that fact alone.

[MikeNYC]

EddiesLuv said:

You and I see it differently. Its easy to say what someone should say or shouldn't say in grief if in fact he was grieving. I don't know I wasn't there. Whether he should have kept his mouth shut or not is a matter of opinion. But I'll tell you one thing, he was Paul's friend and I will give him a pass on that fact alone.

Truth of the matter is Eddie is not quoted as saying anything of the sort. Eddie's Luv,don't you see what's going on? They're trying to divert your attention from the facts,which are.....Paul's wife and Eddie are quoted as saying that Paul was in good spirits the last time they saw him. If you think about it,the only one on record claiming that Paul talked about killing himself is....OTIS! Why,are they trying to cover this up,to make their boy look special? We know that Eddie tried to help Paul in his comeback. WE KNOW THAt Paul and David joined Eddie at the Kabana Club to sing a few songs. We also know that David,Eddie,Paul,Dennis & Jimmy Ruffin were planning of at the very least performing together around 1971,or 1972. This is backed up in Dennis' 1977 interview that I posted on this board... It's a streatch to believe that these sources are not valid,for in the David interview he tells of the cancelled lp that he worked with Smokey,therefore the unreleased "DAVID" CD comes from. All of this is on the board. This article that is the subject of this thread was a local article that was not picked up nationally. There is no proof that it is. Furthermore,when I kept asking the question ..Who knew about Paul's alledged problems when he was living...they had to admit that the only source was rumors. Tell me ,are we talking about the Temptations,or the Timex Social Club,with all the "RUMORS"? The sources that I'm talking about are printed,not with misleading quotes,that are broken up to paint a picture. Look at it,there is no proof that Eddie was quoted as saying anything that they are trying to get you to believe. Sad part about it is...they know it!
Contrary to popular belief,this is not about anyone's "FAVORITE",this is about the truth. We can go on and on,but bottom line is...they have nothing,nothing at all to support their claims. Just stay focused,read between the lines.

[EddiesLuv]

MikeNYC said:

Truth of the matter is Eddie is not quoted as saying anything of the sort. Eddie's Luv,don't you see what's going on? They're trying to divert your attention from the facts,which are.....Paul's wife and Eddie are quoted as saying that Paul was in good spirits the last time they saw him. If you think about it,the only one on record claiming that Paul talked about killing himself is....OTIS! Why,are they trying to cover this up,to make their boy look special? We know that Eddie tried to help Paul in his comeback. WE KNOW THAt Paul and David joined Eddie at the Kabana Club to sing a few songs. We also know that David,Eddie,Paul,Dennis & Jimmy Ruffin were planning of at the very least performing together around 1971,or 1972. This is backed up in Dennis' 1977 interview that I posted on this board... It's a streatch to believe that these sources are not valid,for in the David interview he tells of the cancelled lp that he worked with Smokey,therefore the unreleased "DAVID" CD comes from. All of this is on the board. This article that is the subject of this thread was a local article that was not picked up nationally. There is no proof that it is. Furthermore,when I kept asking the question ..Who knew about Paul's alledged problems when he was living...they had to admit that the only source was rumors. Tell me ,are we talking about the Temptations,or the Timex Social Club,with all the "RUMORS"? The sources that I'm talking about are printed,not with misleading quotes,that are broken up to paint a picture. Look at it,there is no proof that Eddie was quoted as saying anything that they are trying to get you to believe. Sad part about it is...they know it!
Contrary to popular belief,this is not about anyone's "FAVORITE",this is about the truth. We can go on and on,but bottom line is...they have nothing,nothing at all to support their claims. Just stay focused,read between the lines.

I'm trying to follow you Mike but its something I don't understand here. Is the following a quote from Eddie or not? The way its written it appears to be a direct quote although it appears there are no closed end quotation marks. The writer of the article clearly makes it appear to be a quote. If I am missing something please show it to me now. Otherwise, using my own reasoning I'll have to assume it is a quote, which is still no big deal to me.

"We probably rang up more consecutive hit record in the middle and late Sixties than any other male group in history. But then things started to sour. None of us seemed to be getting out of the group as much as we were putting into it. Paul was drinking and running around. Suddenly, he didn’t have his moves anymore. We tried not to notice for a while, but it was too late: He was a sick man.

[MikeNYC]

Aba21 said:

At least we are now admitting he did say it and he said it before Otis wrote it in a book, which is all was in question in the first place. Has nothing to do with who has something to gain from it. Eddie was being honest and in reality Otis was repeating a story all ready told. Again, Why is it ok for Eddie and not for Otis to tell the story?

Question,who is "WE"? Unless you are talking about the fact that WE admit that Paul's alledged problems were not common knowledge,unless you "HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE" while he was alive! Again,this story was a local story that did not travel past Detroit and was not picked up on a national scale.
You even admitted that there is no direct quote linking Eddie to saying anything of the sort,am I mistaken?

[EddiesLuv]

MikeNYC said:

Question,who is "WE"? Unless you are talking about the fact that WE admit that Paul's alledged problems were not common knowledge,unless you "HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE" while he was alive! Again,this story was a local story that did not travel past Detroit and was not picked up on a national scale.
You even admitted that there is no direct quote linking Eddie to saying anything of the sort,am I mistaken?

LOL. Mike you're something else.

[MikeNYC]

kalisa2 said:

DETROIT ~ Paul Williams, 34, one of the original Temptations,
was buried here August 24th. He died anonymously, barely two blocks from the Motown offices where he and the other Temptations cut their first record ten years ago.

Police found William’s’ body late Friday night, August 17th. He
was clad only in swimming trunks and was slumped over the steering wheel of his car. There was a gun in his hand, the hand in his lap, a bullet in his forehead. In the auto’s trunk was a gold bag engraved: PAUL WILLIAMS - TEMPTATIONS. A fingerprint check confirmed his identity. The Detroit coroner’s office ruled suicide.

Williams is survived by his wife, Mary, five children under 12 and his parents, Rufus and Sophie Williams.

A strong baritone, Williams’ voice was a familiar one on such
Temptations songs as “The Way You Do The Things You Do”, the group’s first hit in 1964. And by all accounts he was far and away the best dancer the group ever had.

Beset by personal problems, Williams left the Temptations in March 1971, but he continued to draw a salary as an adviser and supervisor of the group’s choreography. His problems mounted last year when he and his wife separated. He also was said to have owed $80,000 in taxes, and a doctor said he had treated Williams for alcoholism. Friends said that at his worst a couple of years ago, Williams was putting away two fifths of Cognac a day.


Ironically, those who knew Williams insisted that in recent months he had attained his best physical and mental shape of the past several years. A couple of years ago he was spending more time in hospitals than onstage, and finally, on doctor’s orders and with his own consent, he was replaced in the group. However, two days before his death he was sitting in the office of his old manager, Don Foster, talking eagerly about how he was going to help the Tempts work out dance routines for their Las Vegas opening, scheduled for October.

Eddie Kendricks - a former Temptation who is now a Motown solo singer - said Paul also had gotten a band together, done some recording and had been out talking contract with several companies. Most importantly, said Kendricks, Williams had apparently overcome his drinking problem.

Before the funeral, Kendricks, reed-thin and in a bathrobe, sat on an
apartment sofa with a phone on his lap. Calls were coming in from all over the country - some from business associates, other from friends offering condolences.

A few minutes earlier a giant spray of flowers had arrived from Diana Ross, who was on the West Coast.

With each phone sympathizer Kendricks’ response was quick and almost curt: “Don’t worry about me. I’m cool. Worry about Paul.”

(The past few days were not good for Kendricks. His car had been stolen, and he and Ruffin along with Cornelius Grant were robbed of $800 outside Grant’s home in Southfield, a Detroit suburb. Kendricks insisted, however, on keeping the talk centered on Paul.)

The first time I met him, he threw a bucked of mop water on me,” he said. “I lived four houses down from him in Birmingham, and after we settled that incident with a fistfight, we became best friends. He was the first to discover we had music in our heads. He’d get records of [Clyde] McPhatter, the Five Royales, The Midnighters, Little Willie John and then get me to copy them along with him.”

“When we struck off north, we were about 17 and had just enough money for a one-way ticket to Cleveland. We washed dishes and slept in bathtubs there until we melt Elton Jenkins {Milton Jenkins?} who brought us over to Detroit and said he’d manage our careers. He’s dead now too.

“One day when we were living on the East Side, just off John R., Jenkins brought these four girls around for us to meet. Paul and I were calling ourselves the Primes at the time, so it wasn’t long before Diana Ross and her three friends were calling themselves the Primettes.

“Later we met Otis Williams and Melvin Franklin, who are still with the group. We got hold of Elbert {Eldridge} Bryant, and the five of us began doing shows. Somebody thought up the name “Temptations”, we recorded “The Way You Do the Things You Do”, and before we knew it, we were on our way.

“We probably rang up more consecutive hit record in the middle and late Sixties than any other male group in history. But then things started to sour. None of us seemed to be getting out of the group as much as we were putting into it. Paul was drinking and running around. Suddenly, he didn’t have his moves anymore. We tried not to notice for a while, but it was too late: He was a sick man.

“I’ve seen Paul Williams every way imaginable - drunk, ecstatic, furious, down and out. Every time he dropped I would be there to help him back up. He would have done it for me. His comeback was my fight. I thought I was winning until they called me.

“I’ll never really understand how he could have done it. The Paul Williams I saw last week was the one I grew up with in Alabama. I
thought sure he was back to his old self. But I guess in the end even I didn’t really know him.”

First of all,Eddie is not quoted as saying that Paul had a drinking problem. He is quoted as saying that Paul was drinking and running around,now ,tell me who in the group didn't "run around"? As with the drinking part,they all drank,matter of fact when I first met Paul,he was the only one who didn't have anything to drink right before the group went onstage. I remember taking a picture with Eddie right before he did the Hall & Oates gig with David....before we took the picture he told me to hold his drink,then he said OK take the picture. After we took the picture,I realized that in the picture I had Eddie's drink in my hand...it could be mistaken that the drink was mine,but it was Eddie's. This was taken right before he went onstage. If you look at the photo,you would think it was mine. Just because he had a drink,does that mean he went onstage drunk? No it doesn't. And No,he didn't go onstage drunk,he just had a drink. Did this mean that he had a "DRINKING PROBLEM"?
Eddie is also quoted as saying that Paul didn't have the moves anymore...we tried not to notice,but it was too late. He also said that Paul was a sick man. Melvin was a sick man too,who could no longer do the moves,should we think that Melvin had a "DRINKING PROBLEM"? Otis missed a lot of steps,did HE have a "DRINKING PROBLEM"? Paul had sickle cell.....he STILL tried to perform,just like Melvin did with his illness. What's the difference? Can you honestly say that Melvin never drank? I'm not saying that Mel,or Ed had a "DRINKING PROBLEM". I'm not saying that Paul did ,either. Notice,I didn't bring up anything about 7-up.
If anything,this article suggests that Paul was on the comeback trail,not sitting home depressed,or begging Otis to let him back in the group,like the movie suggests. Follow me?

[Aba21]

MikeNYC said:

Truth of the matter is Eddie is not quoted as saying anything of the sort. Eddie's Luv,don't you see what's going on? They're trying to divert your attention from the facts,which are.....Paul's wife and Eddie are quoted as saying that Paul was in good spirits the last time they saw him. If you think about it,the only one on record claiming that Paul talked about killing himself is....OTIS! Why,are they trying to cover this up,to make their boy look special? We know that Eddie tried to help Paul in his comeback. WE KNOW THAt Paul and David joined Eddie at the Kabana Club to sing a few songs. We also know that David,Eddie,Paul,Dennis & Jimmy Ruffin were planning of at the very least performing together around 1971,or 1972. This is backed up in Dennis' 1977 interview that I posted on this board... It's a streatch to believe that these sources are not valid,for in the David interview he tells of the cancelled lp that he worked with Smokey,therefore the unreleased "DAVID" CD comes from. All of this is on the board. This article that is the subject of this thread was a local article that was not picked up nationally. There is no proof that it is. Furthermore,when I kept asking the question ..Who knew about Paul's alledged problems when he was living...they had to admit that the only source was rumors. Tell me ,are we talking about the Temptations,or the Timex Social Club,with all the "RUMORS"? The sources that I'm talking about are printed,not with misleading quotes,that are broken up to paint a picture. Look at it,there is no proof that Eddie was quoted as saying anything that they are trying to get you to believe. Sad part about it is...they know it!
Contrary to popular belief,this is not about anyone's "FAVORITE",this is about the truth. We can go on and on,but bottom line is...they have nothing,nothing at all to support their claims. Just stay focused,read between the lines.

Nobody is trying to make anybody look good or bad except maybe you. I don't care what the point of fact is....the bottom line is he was sick.......and Eddie said it in the article no matter how much you deny he did...he inferred the man was drinking and running around..........whether they were Eddie's words or the words of the writer......that's a bunch of bull to say anyone is trying to distract someone from the truth...............the truth is not here on this board cause none of us were there....otherwise we wouldn't be debating this thing over and over again everyday.......we only have opinions and those of mine which have been made very clear in my writings......I can't speak for everybody else but I am allowed to have them just as anyone else is. I won't tear someone else's thoughts down to make mine look good...I don't need to distract anyone........and as far as him being *my boy*.........you got it wrong................they all are my boys..........no matter whether they were saints or sinners...............for it is not me who stands in judgement.........they will all answer to a higher authourity than me. Who's truth are we talking about here anyway............this is the truth as *you* know it. Others have and continue to disagree which is their right...but don't come at me with my boy crap and all that cause I ain't the one, I don't even know Otis that well.. All I am doing is stating an opinion which somehow gets twisted into some kind of vendetta against Paul and mission to save Otis. Not me..........Reading between the lines can get you all kinds of answers...not all of which can be founded...............on one hand we are told not believe some things we read but to believe anything that says what you believe to be true. I can't believe how this continues in such a negative light all the time. As long as no ones says anything to contradict anything aobut Paul, Eddie and David,then all is right in the world. The moment someone does then all hell breaks loose............these men were not perfect........none of then....Otis included but he is not the only one who shares in the blame if that's what you insist on calling it, in the demise of the Temptations. I call it a story..one that hopefully one day we will learn more about..if not I can live with what I know and my life will have been blessed for having had them a part of mine.

[EddiesLuv]

I see your point about the quote. But before we get way off track here, that wasn't what my comment was about to the other poster. Anyway, you killed any hope for me to follow the rest of your post by telling me you took a picture with Eddie. Why did you have to even go there? lol! Now thats some real stuff I want to see and hear about, not the dumb stuff.

[Aba21]

EddiesLuv said:

Was Otis a friend? Was he trying to make sense of his best friends death? JMHO but it is a big difference. You are right about one thing, Otis was just repeating a story a story he used to advance his own agenda. Thats the difference to me.

Now see, I can understand your feeling there. I hadn't looked at it like that. I don't know if Otis was a friend. All I have read seems to suggest they were not. I don't know what Otis agenda was but I don't see him as saying I'm just gonna ruin the greatest group of all time and lose all this money and fame just so I can be in charge. That does not make any sense to me at all.

[kalisa2]

Eddie'sLuv: The question about Paul's Sickle Cell and Motown 25 has mystified me since I first saw the video (I missed the original show). Because at the time I saw the show I had read Paul's family website and knew of the sickle cell, and thought when I saw the first SC presentation on the show that somewhere during the show mention would be made of Paul. But ... if 'nobody' knew of it at the time of Motown 25, then maybe we can surmise Otis didn't know about it back before Paul died. Maybe he doesn't know of it today? The only source I've seen regarding Paul and sickle cell has been his family's website...as far as I know, Otis doesn't spend his off-time scouring the internet for information about the Temptations like we/I do .

MIKE: Question back at you...what source do we have *besides Paul's family's website* that Paul suffered from sickle cell? Was anybody beside the family aware that Paul suffered from the disease, before he died? Remember, the internet and websites didn't come into play until the late 1990's. I didn't get a full internet account until 1998, for that matter...just a proprietary on-line service with virtually NO deep information...certainly no 'web browser' capability.

[EddiesLuv]

Aba21 said:

Now see, I can understand your feeling there. I hadn't looked at it like that. I don't know if Otis was a friend. All I have read seems to suggest they were not. I don't know what Otis agenda was but I don't see him as saying I'm just gonna ruin the greatest group of all time and lose all this money and fame just so I can be in charge. That does not make any sense to me at all.

LOL I didn't mean his agenda was to ruin the group to be in charge. I meant talking about Paul's drinking in his book to show the obstacles he had to overcome in keeping the Temptations together.

[Aba21]

EddiesLuv said:

LOL I didn't mean his agenda was to ruin the group to be in charge. I meant talking about Paul's drinking in his book to show the obstacles he had to overcome in keeping the Temptations together.

I hear you. I am the first one to say he shouldn't have said all he did about the others and maybe told some things about how the muisc was really made and what went on behind the secnes at Motown and in the studio. But I still say he had a right to write the book. He could write about what he wanted to cause he was there. And if we look at it as just one man's story, we might be able to get past it......if Richard reads this board, he would put his book back in the drawer and shelve it cause he is going to be crucified if he says anything like he sang behind the curtain when Paul was sick.......... ;D

[EddiesLuv]

Aba21 said:

I hear you. I am the first one to say he shouldn't have said all he did about the others and maybe told some things about how the muisc was really made and what went on behind the secnes at Motown and in the studio. But I still say he had a right to write the book. He could write about what he wanted to cause he was there. And if we look at it as just one man's story, we might be able to get past it......if Richard reads this board, he would put his book back in the drawer and shelve it cause he is going to be crucified if he says anything like he sang behind the curtain when Paul was sick.......... ;D

Agreed. But how many people actually view it as one man's story. It was easy to do before the movie came out but the movie was portrayed and is marketed as the Temptations story, not the Temptations as seen and lived by Otis Williams.

[MikeNYC]

Aba21 said:

Nobody is trying to make anybody look good or bad except maybe you. I don't care what the point of fact is....the bottom line is he was sick.......and Eddie said it in the article no matter how much you deny he did...he inferred the man was drinking and running around..........whether they were Eddie's words or the words of the writer......that's a bunch of bull to say anyone is trying to distract someone from the truth...............the truth is not here on this board cause none of us were there....otherwise we wouldn't be debating this thing over and over again everyday.......we only have opinions and those of mine which have been made very clear in my writings......I can't speak for everybody else but I am allowed to have them just as anyone else is. I won't tear someone else's thoughts down to make mine look good...I don't need to distract anyone........and as far as him being *my boy*.........you got it wrong................they all are my boys..........no matter whether they were saints or sinners...............for it is not me who stands in judgement.........they will all answer to a higher authourity than me. Who's truth are we talking about here anyway............this is the truth as *you* know it. Others have and continue to disagree which is their right...but don't come at me with my boy crap and all that cause I ain't the one, I don't even know Otis that well.. All I am doing is stating an opinion which somehow gets twisted into some kind of vendetta against Paul and mission to save Otis. Not me..........Reading between the lines can get you all kinds of answers...not all of which can be founded...............on one hand we are told not believe some things we read but to believe anything that says what you believe to be true. I can't believe how this continues in such a negative light all the time. As long as no ones says anything to contradict anything aobut Paul, Eddie and David,then all is right in the world. The moment someone does then all hell breaks loose............these men were not perfect........none of then....Otis included but he is not the only one who shares in the blame if that's what you insist on calling it, in the demise of the Temptations. I call it a story..one that hopefully one day we will learn more about..if not I can live with what I know and my life will have been blessed for having had them a part of mine.

In some ways I agree with you. Everyone does have the right to their opinion,including ME. That's why I ask about this "favorite" thing. Where does that fall into play? Should I take that as disrespect? Or, not having the right to say what I feel? I don't take it like that,I can't speak for anyone who feels the same way I do,but I don't look at it as negative....just like you shouldn't. I'm just trying to get accross that FAVORITES have nothing to do with this topic. Using what's written,I'm just putting things in another direction. The truth as to what was written. No more,no less. I'm not trying to make you look bad,just like you're not trying to make me look bad. I know that you know every member in the hof 6 is my FAVORITE every one. I,too don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.I'm just tired of this ongoing view of Paul,David,Eddie & Dennis,just as much,if not more as you are with the Otis-thing. I will defend their position in the group,just like you will Otis'. What's the big deal? Should I have mentioned the socks? Just like you,I want people to look at all sides. That's logical. The bottom line is that Eddie was not quoted as saying that Paul had a drinking problem. That's the truth. Just like it was not common knowledge that Paul had those alledged problems while he was alive. Unless it came from the rumor mill. If that is the case,wouldn't you agree that it should be stated as "RUMOR has it?" Maybe the point is that I look at the way Paul,David ,Eddie &Dennis are discussed just as negative as you look at the way Otis is discussed. I know that when you feel that's the way the discussion is going you're gonna speak,just like I will when David,Paul,Eddie & Dennis is going negative.This has nothing to do with FAVORITES! ;D

[ZeldaFScott]

Aba, I admire you for you ability to put things into perspective. I wish I could stay as neutral when it comes to pointing out the facts usually neglected in a discussion. I'll try and stay as cool as you whenever I talk about the issue at hand, but most of the time I am not able to overcome my antipathy ;D