more attention given to my boo cornbread's death

[Weak4Weeks]

tabby said:

"... after David, Eddie and Dennis departed..."

I agree that Eddie and Dennis were depicted as "departed."
David, though, was rather shown as "discarded" in the scene where he is thrown out of a car into the streets.
While I agree that Melvin's and Eddie's deaths were handled "tactfully," I strongly object to include David's death within the same category.
David Ruffin's death was portrayed completely disrespectful to him as well as his family and those admirers of him who were still able to consider him a human being despite his being demonized. Even if he was not what one may consider an example of virtue, nobody has the right to violate his dignity in death. That scene, in my opinion, was downright obscene -- the brainchild of vengeance, hatred and envy maybe ;D
Also, if you ((Beej)) demand that the feelings of relatives who have lost a loved one to cancer be spared, I would like to remind you that there are also many family members of suicides around, facing the hard task to grip the despair and anguish their loved ones struggled with when taking the final step and ending their own lives. The same is true for the families of murder and rape victims who have been "discarded" in a similar way as David was in the movie.
Therefore, I do not buy into the "being thoughtful and considerate" angle of your post. In addition, according to Otis' own words, the death of Melvin had been shown as it was to spare his feelings since the event was still "fresh" in his memory. So, here we have a, in my opinion, disgusting double standard: O's grief is considered more relevant than the pain of the Williams family, or Ruffin family. But I guess that was only so, because Otis had absolutely no say in the production of the movie whatsoever.

I understand where you're coming from Anna, however, it was a movie and they used their artistic license to make the movie flow better . I am not saying that Otis had no say in the movie, (or was that a bad example of sarcasm?) , however I do have reason to believe that his executive producer title was really just that a title...he was only on set once...he wasn't behind the camera or in the editing room. Like Kalisa says you don't now what went on in David's life...ONLY David knows and sadly he is not here anymore, but his legacy will live on in the Temptations albums and whether you like it or not, the movie

Weaky

[lightdion]

weak4weeks said:

lightdion said:

OKAY, AND WE ARE LEARNING THAT FROM ALL THESE KIND FOLKS AND RESEARCH!!! LIKE WE'VE SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE, THAT WE LOVE AND RESPECT OTIS WITH ALL OF OUR HEARTS. WITHOUT HIM, THE BEST GROUP TO EVER GRACE THE STAGE WOULD'NT BE AS PUT TOGETHER AS IT IS!!!! I'VE NEVER BLAMED OTIS FOR ANY OF THE WAY THE CHARACTERS WERE DEPICTED IN THE MOVIE.............. IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I'M SURE THAT THAT WAS THE FIRST SOURCE OF INFO THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE KNOWN, AND NOW WE ARE SLOWLY BUT SURELY LEARNING THE TRUE FACTS! THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT- ;D

Learning the facts is one thing, but to make accusations and comments on something you know very little about is ridiculous...I am not trying to get into tit for tat with you, but if you are feeling guilty, because I never said any names.

Never said any names? No one is feeling guilty, I'm sure. As I've said before, everyone is entiltled to thier own opinions and in the beginning YES we've had past opinions that folks may not have agreed on. But the main reason why people like me are on this boards is to learn the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the Tempts. That's why comments were made, in order for the experts to KINDLY correct and educate people who have not known about the Tempts. as long as they have.
That is why any past opinions that MAY had been made about Otis, have changed and respect for him has been made significantly....... Food for thought: Don't sweep the dust straight out the door"
THANK YOU AND AGAIN, GOODNIGHT!!

[lightdion]

aba21 said:

Its great that so many have come on board because of the movie. Dennis Edwards said that is how you should view it..............its just a TV movie. I for one am happy it was done despite all its inaccuracies...........it led so many here and created a new fan base for such a great group. But it shouldn't stop there. Research is the key to enlightenment and by doing so you will find out each one of these men was very talented in their own way. As close as Otis was to Melvin, I knew the scene where he died at Mama Rose's was a lie...........and then I found out why he didn't tell the truth. He didn't want the unfortunate details of his death to be shown in the movie. If you read the second edition of his book, he explains that. They squeezed Melvin's car jacking, his prescription drug usage and his skirt chasing all in one scene. Didn't happen that way! ;D

I believe he had no earthly idea that movie would generate as much interest and controversy as it has. I think he was trying to leave something for future fans to enjoy and get a feel for the Temptations, since there is no Biography or no E Hollywood True Story or anything else documented about the group. And before you say it, you darn right he did it for the money!!!! This is America last time I checked!!!! ;D ;D ;D

THABKS ABA21, THAT CLEARS UP ALOT! YOU'VE SUMMOMED IT UP PERFECTLY!

[davidruffinlover]

This post is for anyone & everyone:Alright, alright!! This thread is entitled "More attention given to my boo cornbread's death". Somehow, don't remember if it was by me or someone else but the topic kinda got switched to Davids death & now there's this "debate" if you will. If we gonna debate at all on this thread it should be over Eddies death(miss him). In which case, everything in this post I'm making right now is just MY opinion. So, in response to this thread; I think more attention coulda been given to Eddies death in the movie(tv mini-series), whatever you wanna call it =). As for the Jurrasic Park comments, lol; I LOVE those movies...least the 1rst two. The first one scares me more now then it did when I saw it at the age of like 6 or 7. Lol. Wasn't scared of Raptors then.....watch it now though & I get nightmares!! =) Peace ya'll.

[Elbridge]

weak4weeks said:

I understand where you're coming from Anna, however, it was a movie and they used their artistic license to make the movie flow better . I am not saying that Otis had no say in the movie, (or was that a bad example of sarcasm?) , however I do have reason to believe that his executive producer title was really just that a title...he was only on set once...he wasn't behind the camera or in the editing room. Like Kalisa says you don't now what went on in David's life...ONLY David knows and sadly he is not here anymore, but his legacy will live on in the Temptations albums and whether you like it or not, the movie

Weaky

It's true. Otis probably knows no more about "producing" than my cat does. The title "executive producer" is thrown around either to make the person feel important or to lend an air of authenticity to the project to which the individual is loosely attached. Otis' possession of that title does not change the fact that a writer/director won't use dramatic license as much as is necessary to convey the ideas to save time or to add drama. The lack of truthfulness in the miniseries should shock no one.

Ed

[Aba21]

weak4weeks said:

tabby said:

"... after David, Eddie and Dennis departed..."

I agree that Eddie and Dennis were depicted as "departed."
David, though, was rather shown as "discarded" in the scene where he is thrown out of a car into the streets.
While I agree that Melvin's and Eddie's deaths were handled "tactfully," I strongly object to include David's death within the same category.
David Ruffin's death was portrayed completely disrespectful to him as well as his family and those admirers of him who were still able to consider him a human being despite his being demonized. Even if he was not what one may consider an example of virtue, nobody has the right to violate his dignity in death. That scene, in my opinion, was downright obscene -- the brainchild of vengeance, hatred and envy maybe ;D
Also, if you ((Beej)) demand that the feelings of relatives who have lost a loved one to cancer be spared, I would like to remind you that there are also many family members of suicides around, facing the hard task to grip the despair and anguish their loved ones struggled with when taking the final step and ending their own lives. The same is true for the families of murder and rape victims who have been "discarded" in a similar way as David was in the movie.
Therefore, I do not buy into the "being thoughtful and considerate" angle of your post. In addition, according to Otis' own words, the death of Melvin had been shown as it was to spare his feelings since the event was still "fresh" in his memory. So, here we have a, in my opinion, disgusting double standard: O's grief is considered more relevant than the pain of the Williams family, or Ruffin family. But I guess that was only so, because Otis had absolutely no say in the production of the movie whatsoever.

I understand where you're coming from Anna, however, it was a movie and they used their artistic license to make the movie flow better . I am not saying that Otis had no say in the movie, (or was that a bad example of sarcasm?) , however I do have reason to believe that his executive producer title was really just that a title...he was only on set once...he wasn't behind the camera or in the editing room. Like Kalisa says you don't now what went on in David's life...ONLY David knows and sadly he is not here anymore, but his legacy will live on in the Temptations albums and whether you like it or not.

Weaky

This is a point I keep making over and over again.. All of a sudden Otis can make a movie. Please........... all they got from him was permission to do so and they didn't really need that. He didn't chose the cast, any acters who played the parts of the Temptations, he's not a casting director. He was on the sidelines as a technical advisor if anything............but given t he title of Executive Producer because of his status in the movie. They probably only used him for his childhood stuff and on the choregraphy where needed and whatever stories he could provide to the script that was all ready written "based" on his book.

I don't think it was his doing on the David death scene. He wasn't there as was nobody else on the movie set. Those rumors were in the papers following his death and so they chose to use them. Since David was a central character in the movie, controversial in most parts................that scene fit "their" script....period. I do not believe it was done to hurt anyone's family. Why would someone deliberatly do that? It was not tasteful, nor was it true......but like so many other things in the movie...........liberties were taken make it flow. I do not believe Otis was smart enough to do that, nor skilled in the profession to re-write it. It was not the responsibility of the "tv movie" to educate you, since it was not a documentary. It was to entertain you...........which it did for me. To educate yourself, you need to do the research and find out the truth for your self before casting blame in the wrong directions.

[rockinrobin]

tabby said:

"... after David, Eddie and Dennis departed..."

I agree that Eddie and Dennis were depicted as "departed."
David, though, was rather shown as "discarded" in the scene where he is thrown out of a car into the streets.
David Ruffin's death was portrayed completely disrespectful to him as well as his family and those admirers of him who were still able to consider him a human being despite his being demonized.

Anna, if you have read as much about David's death as you claim, you would realize that David's death was reported IN THE NEWS just as it was in O's book and the movie. Otis was NOT fantasizing, demonizing, or whatever else you want to accuse him of, regarding David's demise. And again, if you have issue with what was put into the movie, blame the director or Suzanne DePasse. Leave Otis out of it.

[tabby]

rockinrobin said:

tabby said:

"... after David, Eddie and Dennis departed..."

I agree that Eddie and Dennis were depicted as "departed."
David, though, was rather shown as "discarded" in the scene where he is thrown out of a car into the streets.
David Ruffin's death was portrayed completely disrespectful to him as well as his family and those admirers of him who were still able to consider him a human being despite his being demonized.

Anna, if you have read as much about David's death as you claim, you would realize that David's death was reported IN THE NEWS just as it was in O's book and the movie. Otis was NOT fantasizing, demonizing, or whatever else you want to accuse him of, regarding David's demise. And again, if you have issue with what was put into the movie, blame the director or Suzanne DePasse. Leave Otis out of it.

I haven't read the original newspaper article, I have to admit. But Otis' description of the event sounds completely different from what the movie shows. I do not want to have this thread go into a "David direction." Just to make sure you and I read the same book by Otis Williams here is the quote:

... Sometime around three a.m., a limousine pulled up at the emergency room entrance of the University of Pennsylvania Hospital and dumped David out. According to one report, the driver said to the hospital staff, "He's in bad shape. He was with the Temptations. His name is David Ruffin," before speeding off into the night. (226)

Now that is not the same as dumping someone out of a car somewhere in the streets of Philadelphia as I remember the movie was showing. So, it was at least not the same in the movie as in O's book. What are you trying to say?

[tabby]

..."...What were you hoping for, if I might ask...a scene of an emaciated "Eddie" -- ravaged by cancer and already missing one lung -- gasping for his last breath? "

Yeah ((Beej)), that is quite true. On the other hand, there are not many of us who don't know what a funeral is like. Yet we got to enjoy two of them in the same movie. Also, we got to witness the heart wrenching scene when O finds out his mother has cancer. (I am pretty, pretty sure a little more of the frequently cited dramatic license could have squeezed some laudatory remarks about big O out of Eddie's mouth, too. Too, bad they let that chance pass by ...)
I don't think that anyone was asking to see Eddie or Melvin suffer just for entertainment's sake. But I understand that after all the (deserved) attention the other deaths got, Eddie's was treated almost as a rather insignificant affair.

[Weak4Weeks]

I don't mean to offend, but this thread was originally to discuss that matter, however it always somehow turns to Otis wearing the Big Bad Man hat. I mean how did David even become a part of the discussion? I only jumped in because I felt O was being disrespected and I am always on Patrol. Don't like him or even hate him if you want, but don't disrespect him. PERIOD!! Because when you do you disrespect others on this here board who only want to have conversation (Otis Lovers and otherewise) And I don't understand how calling someone a coward or saying they need to be slapped is not disrespect, but hey that's just me, what do I know?


Now to return to the subject (for the 8 millionth time) I think Eddies death couldve been portrayed a different way, but I'm with Beej, who wants to see that? There are so many parts in the movie I can't watch, the David death scene one of them...after the Hall of Fame I usually turn the thing off... If you read the book you see Eddie was at home watching football and started coughing up blood it's really sad.

[tabby]

" ... hey that's just me, what do I know?"

I don't mean to offend, but I am inclined to agree.

[Weak4Weeks]

tabby said:

" ... hey that's just me, what do I know?"

I don't mean to offend, but I am inclined to agree.

so if someone would've said your precious David needed to be slapped so he could get his life together, that's not disrespectful? It may be the truth he needed to get his life together but to say he needed to get slapped, that's not disrespectful?. Especially when you dont know what went down!! Also please don't bring this to insults because that is extremely childish... yes even for you.

[Aba21]

tabby said:

..."...What were you hoping for, if I might ask...a scene of an emaciated "Eddie" -- ravaged by cancer and already missing one lung -- gasping for his last breath? "

Yeah ((Beej)), that is quite true. On the other hand, there are not many of us who don't know what a funeral is like. Yet we got to enjoy two of them in the same movie. Also, we got to witness the heart wrenching scene when O finds out his mother has cancer. (I am pretty, pretty sure a little more of the frequently cited dramatic license could have squeezed some laudatory remarks about big O out of Eddie's mouth, too. Too, bad they let that chance pass by ...)
I don't think that anyone was asking to see Eddie or Melvin suffer just for entertainment's sake. But I understand that after all the (deserved) attention the other deaths got, Eddie's was treated almost as a rather insignificant affair.

The only thing that would have made you happy is if David wasn't in the movie at all. You should have done the movie yourself, since you have found every lie, broken down every scene for all its discrepancies and called it trash. Why are you here? Are you championing the cause of David Ruffin? He doesn't need one. He was a grown man and stood on his own two feet. I saw on here a couple of pages ago where you tried to say something positive but finished with a sarcastic remark about Otis which had nothing to do with the point you were making. I let that one go. Did anyone say anything here about David that wasn't true? If so I didn't see it.

The problem is you don't like Otis and you make damn sure you let people know every chance you get. Then you get mad and run away when you are confronted on it. Or even more so, you then accuse people of jumping on you when you do. You make people who could give less than two cents about Otis Williams come to his defense and you can't see why.

You talk about this movie like it was some huge conspiracy against David and Eddie concocted by Otis to make them look bad and himself good. No matter how many times people tell you different, you refuse to budge. They can show you in print and you turn it around. I know we are entitled to our opinons and see differently on every thing about the movie and book. But the way you trash the book, the movie and Otis is like he doesn't even belong in the group with the those other guys and if my recollections serves me right, he was a co-founder and since day one damn near 25 men have sang with him so somebody thinks he can sing and it seems to be the professionals in the business who do, and I'll take their word for it any day............

This was a movie done from one's man perspective, right or wrong. It gave many fans thrills and still does every time they watch it. I'm sorry your love for David won't let you get past it. What Beej called David is well documented in court papers, news articles and by his peers. You are the only one I know who can't get over it. You can't save his reputation now.......its too late. And most real fans can see past all the negative garbage and love the great performer he was with out blaming Otis Williams for David's trouble in life.

Sometimes I come here and can't believe what I read. People call themselves Temptation fans and then spend all their time talking bad about this one or the other one. You are not alone there. When is it gonna stop? When are you gonna talk about the music and quit talking about the stuff that none of us here was there to see and all we all know is just hearsay. That's why many of the good people who used to post here are gone. They get tired of reading the same old mess every thread.

You may not think so but many more people love David than Otis. Its just a natural thing. He was charasmatic, the big time lead singer of the Temptations. He took them to the next level. He is loved by all of us even if we don't sing his praises every five minutes. I'm tired of all the talk about any of the guys. This one can't sing.can't dance. This one is full of himself. I thought we loved the Tempts...........sometimes its hard to see that through all the fog.

[tabby]

aba21 said:

tabby said:

..."...What were you hoping for, if I might ask...a scene of an emaciated "Eddie" -- ravaged by cancer and already missing one lung -- gasping for his last breath? "

Yeah ((Beej)), that is quite true. On the other hand, there are not many of us who don't know what a funeral is like. Yet we got to enjoy two of them in the same movie. Also, we got to witness the heart wrenching scene when O finds out his mother has cancer. (I am pretty, pretty sure a little more of the frequently cited dramatic license could have squeezed some laudatory remarks about big O out of Eddie's mouth, too. Too, bad they let that chance pass by ...)
I don't think that anyone was asking to see Eddie or Melvin suffer just for entertainment's sake. But I understand that after all the (deserved) attention the other deaths got, Eddie's was treated almost as a rather insignificant affair.

The only thing that would have made you happy is if David wasn't in the movie at all. You should have done the movie yourself, since you have found every lie, broken down every scene for all its discrepancies and called it trash. Why are you here? Are you championing the cause of David Ruffin? He doesn't need one. He was a grown man and stood on his own two feet. I saw on here a couple of pages ago where you tried to say something positive but finished with a sarcastic remark about Otis which had nothing to do with the point you were making. I let that one go. Did anyone say anything here about David that wasn't true? If so I didn't see it.

The problem is you don't like Otis and you make damn sure you let people know every chance you get. Then you get mad and run away when you are confronted on it. Or even more so, you then accuse people of jumping on you when you do. You make people who could give less than two cents about Otis Williams come to his defense and you can't see why.

You talk about this movie like it was some huge conspiracy against David and Eddie concocted by Otis to make them look bad and himself good. No matter how many times people tell you different, you refuse to budge. They can show you in print and you turn it around. I know we are entitled to our opinons and see differently on every thing about the movie and book. But the way you trash the book, the movie and Otis is like he doesn't even belong in the group with the those other guys and if my recollections serves me right, he was a co-founder and since day one damn near 25 men have sang with him so somebody thinks he can sing and it seems to be the professionals in the business who do, and I'll take their word for it any day............

This was a movie done from one's man perspective, right or wrong. It gave many fans thrills and still does every time they watch it. I'm sorry your love for David won't let you get past it. What Beej called David is well documented in court papers, news articles and by his peers. You are the only one I know who can't get over it. You can't save his reputation now.......its too late. And most real fans can see past all the negative garbage and love the great performer he was with out blaming Otis Williams for David's trouble in life.

Sometimes I come here and can't believe what I read. People call themselves Temptation fans and then spend all their time talking bad about this one or the other one. You are not alone there. When is it gonna stop? When are you gonna talk about the music and quit talking about the stuff that none of us here was there to see and all we all know is just hearsay. That's why many of the good people who used to post here are gone. They get tired of reading the same old mess every thread.

You may not think so but many more people love David than Otis. Its just a natural thing. He was charasmatic, the big time lead singer of the Temptations. He took them to the next level. He is loved by all of us even if we don't sing his praises every five minutes. I'm tired of all the talk about any of the guys. This one can't sing.can't dance. This one is full of himself. I thought we loved the Tempts...........sometimes its hard to see that through all the fog.

Now, back to the topic ... Do you think that Eddie's death was handled with the same care as Melvin's, for example?

[Weak4Weeks]

tabby said:

aba21 said:

The only thing that would have made you happy is if David wasn't in the movie at all. You should have done the movie yourself, since you have found every lie, broken down every scene for all its discrepancies and called it trash. Why are you here? Are you championing the cause of David Ruffin? He doesn't need one. He was a grown man and stood on his own two feet. I saw on here a couple of pages ago where you tried to say something positive but finished with a sarcastic remark about Otis which had nothing to do with the point you were making. I let that one go. Did anyone say anything here about David that wasn't true? If so I didn't see it.

The problem is you don't like Otis and you make damn sure you let people know every chance you get. Then you get mad and run away when you are confronted on it. Or even more so, you then accuse people of jumping on you when you do. You make people who could give less than two cents about Otis Williams come to his defense and you can't see why.

You talk about this movie like it was some huge conspiracy against David and Eddie concocted by Otis to make them look bad and himself good. No matter how many times people tell you different, you refuse to budge. They can show you in print and you turn it around. I know we are entitled to our opinons and see differently on every thing about the movie and book. But the way you trash the book, the movie and Otis is like he doesn't even belong in the group with the those other guys and if my recollections serves me right, he was a co-founder and since day one damn near 25 men have sang with him so somebody thinks he can sing and it seems to be the professionals in the business who do, and I'll take their word for it any day............

This was a movie done from one's man perspective, right or wrong. It gave many fans thrills and still does every time they watch it. I'm sorry your love for David won't let you get past it. What Beej called David is well documented in court papers, news articles and by his peers. You are the only one I know who can't get over it. You can't save his reputation now.......its too late. And most real fans can see past all the negative garbage and love the great performer he was with out blaming Otis Williams for David's trouble in life.

Sometimes I come here and can't believe what I read. People call themselves Temptation fans and then spend all their time talking bad about this one or the other one. You are not alone there. When is it gonna stop? When are you gonna talk about the music and quit talking about the stuff that none of us here was there to see and all we all know is just hearsay. That's why many of the good people who used to post here are gone. They get tired of reading the same old mess every thread.

You may not think so but many more people love David than Otis. Its just a natural thing. He was charasmatic, the big time lead singer of the Temptations. He took them to the next level. He is loved by all of us even if we don't sing his praises every five minutes. I'm tired of all the talk about any of the guys. This one can't sing.can't dance. This one is full of himself. I thought we loved the Tempts...........sometimes its hard to see that through all the fog.

Now, back to the topic ... Do you think that Eddie's death was handled with the same care as Melvin's, for example?

That is still not the topic. The topic is Eddies death deserved more attention. PERIOD. Not did Otis make spend more time on Melvin than Eddie which is exactly where you are going with this.