|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 16:28:04 GMT -5
First of all I ain't yelling at you. My comments are related to the backstabbers statement. Don't get hotsy totsy with me, young lady! ;D For a man who many here consider unimportant in terms of what he brought to the Temptations, he sure gets the most grief for their problems.
No matter whether he signed any papers or not he is not solely responsible for the changes in the group. Were you there? No! Neither was I. I just don't get this constant bashing of one man. It's only being done cause he's the only one left. He has no say in that! Somehow we keep leaving BG out of this mix. You can say anything you want but David's agenda was an embarassement to BG if his vision was to go to the next level with the company as well as the Temptations. You can't be in a group and have your own agenda. It's the death Knell waiting to happen. Did David have to be let go? No! Was Otis vote the only one that counted? No! All I am saying is he is not the sole blame but he gets all the grief. I don't like everything he did either but I am not sitting in judgement as he is the only one who committed murder here. Eddie left on his own accord. No matter the reasons he chose to leave. Dennis chose to leave. Paul left because he couldn't perform. Melvin died. He was Otis best friend. Should he not have replaced him either? You talking out the side of your neck when you say he is the one who made all this happen. They all had a part in their crash. No one is blameless.
But the biggest sore point with me is people who have no idea what happened other than what they read somewhere or heard from somebody, faulting one man for their troubles. Didn't we just get finished beating up on Tony Turner? And Geena Davis? And Mary Wilson? Listen Otis Williams leaves a lot ot be desired in light of some of the things we know now. But he should be given a little credit for what he has kept alive by any means necessary. Some of the people who left went on with their lives. Eddie said few words about what happened and nothing concrete. David said very few words. Dennis has said only a few things. Otis should have never written the book or had the movie made. Then I wouldn't have all of you to debate with everyday!
Well IRLM.......I said I wasn't going back there but I did didn't I? And it's your fault. You are solely to blame for my digression. ;D And now that Ijust looked at your post, I didn't even know you used the word backstabber. You didn't use it first though! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 16:38:49 GMT -5
He didn't have a choice but to continue on with the group. He'd probably be homeless now if he didn't have a group. That's his meal ticket. Letting it go!  I know you were just kidding but Otis and Melvin settled their differences with Motown resulting in a multi-million dollar settlement. So he could quit whenever he wants. I just think he enjoys what he does. |
|
|
|
Post by iratherlikeme on Apr 2, 2003 16:39:25 GMT -5
I didn't use the word "backstabber." I think I might've said that backstabber wouldn't be a correct term to use.
You say that we weren't there when decisions were being made, but did you talk to David? Did he tell you what his agenda was? Where did you hear about what his alleged "agenda" was? From somebody else... second, third, or maybe even fourth-hand information. Remember this? "But the biggest sore point with me is people who have no idea what happened other than what they read somewhere or heard from somebody..." Right...
I didn't say that. You said that he didn't have anything to do with what happened to the group. I say that he did. He signed a sheet of paper releasing David from the group. That's something. Get what I'm saying?
:listens: Ain't a peep coming out of this neck. ;D Again, I didn't say that.
|
|
|
|
Post by iratherlikeme on Apr 2, 2003 16:40:51 GMT -5
Boy, that My Girl song knows it's hot!! 1^-) ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by sukkafu on Apr 2, 2003 16:58:19 GMT -5
david's agenda- of course aba was there! remember-he was on stage singing my girl- sober, 6'8'' and gentlemanly! david brought him out of the audience!  kalisa- i would have no problem with aba going up because he's not the ordinary typical joe sitting in the audience, but a person with talent and a long time association with the group. thank goodness for dennis ! it's so ironic how the one guy who can't sing lead or dance well gets to keep the group going, regardless of business savvy- just talking talent wise only- sheer talent alone- imagine if david or eddie or paul or mel were still alive- would the group have taken a different tone? would otis be the ''head honcho''? it seems like the ''group '' was the all important thing back then, but now it's like otis is the king and these guys are his subjects. yes, he still doesn't sing lead, he's not stupid, but harry in that christmas interview was kissing butt bigtime-i want to thank otis for giving me blah blah blah.. dennis edwards must be doing something right if his group hasn't fallen apart without otis' s business acumen.david sea has a voice that could work it solo but he chooses to stay with a legend. |
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 17:14:14 GMT -5
My information may be second hand but it is second hand from within the group. I don't think you can get much closer than that. I don't believe all I see hear and read. And I am not defending anything anybody did. I only want to clear up the misconception that Otis is the only one at fault. Hell I don't believe everything I have heard within the group either but I would believe more of that than other stuff I hear. Your point is the same as mine. None of us were there so it is pure speculation what really happened. As far as David's agenda....well I can but I won't speak to what I have been told about it. It is not my place since I never witnessed anything.
IRLM....I was friends with Melvin Franklin for 30 years or more. Why do we not bash him? He signed the papers too. He is never mentioned as a culprit in the David incident.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 17:43:55 GMT -5
Dennis Edwards is not with the TEmptations cause he wanted a bigger piece of the pie. Does he deserve it? Hell yeah! Did he get it. No. Same with Ali and Richard. Theo and Damon were put out. I don't know what happened with Louis or Rickey.
Is he a smarter business man since he left the Temps?. No he just gets a bigger piece of the pie. This is a business first. All this sympathetic crap is useless. I don't care how you feel about any single member of the group. Corporate takeovers happen everyday. Otis took over something no one else wanted bad enough to do so themselves until after he did.
Now what you hear is a result of Otis not bending and giving deserving lead singers more money. So they chose to leave. Ego is a huge deal. Ego cost these men their jobs. And what gave Otis the right to exercise that point.......he owns the name...that's what. Doesn't matter whether he sings lead, background or not at all. Whether he sings off key,in harmony or whatever.....he owns the name and he makes the decisions since he got control of the name.
And suk....who should Harry thank for being a member of the Temptations?
|
|
|
|
Post by sukkafu on Apr 2, 2003 18:45:07 GMT -5
harry does thank otis correctly. he doesn't have to grovel.
aba, your points are well taken, and i am sorry to open up more worm cans.
otis is still going to make $$ off of me so i haven't boycotted him. i just appreciate the musical talents of the other hof6 a little more.
for conti's birthday today, she watched the ed sullivan tape with me- the tape called the sweet sounds of soul.
the tempts did runaway child and i can't get next to you
and otis looked okay, but on the singing of runaway child,his lipsync was off and on the live singing of can't get next to you he was slightly off beat and off key.
that said, he was dancing okay. dennis and the others were perfect on everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by earthangel on Apr 2, 2003 19:16:07 GMT -5
IRLM....I was friends with Melvin Franklin for 30 years or more. Why do we not bash him? He signed the papers too. He is never mentioned as a culprit in the David incident. I don't know why people always turn and look only at Otis. It seems like he was big decision maker and it seems like he still is today.  For the record, I only "pick" with Otis like I'd pick with my brother or my cousin. I definately don'te hate him, or hold any negative feelings towards him. I'm happy that at least one of them (C5) is still around today. And though we're missing about 4 other versions, he does have his story to tell and in his mind, a job to do. |
|
|
|
Post by iratherlikeme on Apr 2, 2003 19:20:29 GMT -5
Please... what kind of people speak ill of the dead? The ones without any scruples whatsoever. And who calls Otis a culprit? They were both participants, but culprit is... the wrong word. He should thank Otis' doctor.  You don't believe that people can--and will--manipulate the information that they tell you in such a way that will make the subject of that information look less-than-decent? I'm not saying that David Ruffin might not have had a big ego. I didn't know the man, so I don't have that right. I am saying that unless you actually heard the man say, "I want a bigger piece of everything," but instead you heard it from people who could've changed things to suit themselves and their purposes, you may not have that right, either. Just my opinion. With all the "no man bigger than the group" preaching, acting on that idea would've probably been impossible. One man in control of everything? Isn't that what you say they put David out for wanting? After everyone else had passed, he took his opportunity. Do you think he would have it if Paul or Eddie James were still alive and performing and they wanted it? Nah... What is the deal? Am I being overly cynical or something?  |
|
|
|
Post by iratherlikeme on Apr 2, 2003 19:37:59 GMT -5
Man, I skipped right over this. Geena Davis? The actress? Hee hee... ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 20:21:25 GMT -5
Ok...here it is.
They all were members of group at the same time in life. I was a BB player and in my time I chose to make public appearances, bb camps, team spokesman, school appearances,churches, communinty functions, sports dinners. Know what it got me. I became captain of my team. Was I the leading Scorer? No! Was I the MVP? No! Other members of my team had the same opportunities but chose not to participate for their own reasons. When it came time for retirement, I was hired by the club to continue what I started and the others were not. These guys were presented the same chances to do anything. As a matter of fact the stars were probably asked first and said no because they didn't have time for the little stuff. When it was time to make decisions do you really think they were made without some effort to contact all the members of the group? And how long should they have waited for any one member of the group to decide if a decision needed to be made right away?
Otis just looked at the big picture. He has never said he wanted to be the star. He has never asked for more leads. As a matter of fact he has said he isn't that comfportable in the lead. Now that sounds like a team player to me. He is not the best. He is not the worst. But he is here and that's enough for me. Just because the others are dead doesn't mean I expect more out of him. He is doing what he has always done. He can't be all five guys.
As far as people in the group manipulating their stories to fit their agenda....it's a good point but they don't answer to me. My information comes not from investigating but through conversations with them as friends. I personally don't care what happened. I'm just sorry it did.
So do I have to wait for Otis to die before something good is said about him? Since you don't speak ill of the dead. I believe Paul has been talked about and he was dead when this board started. David has beem blamed and he was dead before this board started. So plenty of ill has been passed about some dead people on this board. Is Melvin any different? You make it sound like it ok to beat on Otis just because he's alive.
Ok you got me on Geena Davis!!! ;D ;D You know I meant Sapien! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 20:37:43 GMT -5
And from my understanding during those times it was Paul who did most of the talking for the group. He was the one who did all the talking when they perfomed live and he was the heart and soul of the classic temptations. So how much power did Otis really have. I believe Paul had just as much say in David's departure as anybody in the group.
Which leads me to Otis taking over a group nobody wanted. In the late seventies nobody gave a damn about the Temptations but Otis and Melvin. Most people said they wern't even the Temptations anyway with the three lead singers gone. So what really did Otis take over? But with the return to glory it became a big deal. They took Dennis back and he didn't/couldn't stay and they took ALi back and he couldn't/didn't stay. So just exactly what did Otis get other than the name. I mean this board refers to that time as the LEAN YEARS. So nobody wanted them. So when Otis got them no one knew they would be where they are today. If the LEAN YEARS were still in place today, this board woudn't be here. Many years ago Otis asked me to find an original version of THAT'S HOW HEARTACHES ARE MADE which I did.He said he was going toput it on an lp. He waited over ten years before he remade the song. The man has patience and perserverance. With everything and everybody falling all around him he still went on with the group. He and Melvin
Now is he an angel. I think not. Did he mistreat some people? Sure he did. Did he put out information in a respectful way to all those concerned. I don't think so. But I say again at this point in time he should celebrated for his ability to be here this long. Who can say what wpould have happened if Paul, Eddie and David were still around? They are not and Otis didn't kill them either not with his deeds or his words.
One last thing: David was not put out of the group for wanting to be in charge. That wasn't gonna happen anyway. He was dismissed for other infractions according to sources. He was the last man in the group. He had no seniority so how could he be in charge? I hope you don't say because he sang lead.
|
|
|
|
Post by selfishreasons on Apr 2, 2003 22:04:19 GMT -5
wow, this convo is deep. sure is. if I had three cents i'd give you three, but I only got two, so here it is. I agree that Otis is a business man and when some people weren't willing to do the wrok he was. Otis is the boss for a reason. Now, when becoming a member, that has got to be respected. Now, I'm sure he didn't make it easy on some people who wanted more, but he didn't have to. As much as I love Richard and Dennis and believe that they should have gotten more than what they got (especially Richard), Otis was the boss and had to take care of his business, which was the tempts and himself.
I hope this is making sense, if it's not, then blame it on the allergy pills.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aba21 on Apr 2, 2003 22:26:07 GMT -5
My point has always been nobody wnated to make a decsion until Otis started making them. The everybody had someting say. Where were they when all this was going on. It's like Otis went to BG on some cloak and dagger mission to take ov er the Temptations.
|
|
