Al vs Eddie

[Nupeman88]

Ughan said:

I hear Eddie on lead, the other 4 tempts in the background (no high tenor in the background by the way) then Paul comes in at the end. I'm telling you now that Al was a 2nd tenor not a high tenor.

You are right on that song. On the Meet The Temptations album, however, I heard a high tenor on some songs that was very different and distinct from Eddie's voice. I presume that voice belonged to Al, because after his departure from the group, I never heard that voice again. I also made note of how Eddie's tenor on some of those early recordings differed from the sound that we grew accustomed to hearing from Eddie later on.

[Nupeman88]

ThaFunkyFakeTation said:

One more time...

Al was a floating tenor.

Ed

Ed, some people fail to understand. ???Please refer to post #76.

[Elbridge]

Nupeman88 said:

Ed, some people fail to understand.

I'm noticing that...LOL!

Ed

[janebse]

Cadeho,

What you are doing in listening and relistening to the music and singing, the separation of voices, the separation of musical instruments IS EXACTLY what the great American composer Aaron Copeland said must be done to understand and appreciate music. ANd he admitted it is difficult and takes time, much time. Furthermore, he added that many famous musicians are not able to do this. They play their instrument beautifully BUT THEY DO NOT REALLY KNOW MUSIC. So my hat off to you for the time and effort you have taken and are continuing to take. I have been working on this skill for several years, but I think you are way ahead of me. The only thing I can claim is that I am a much better listener now than I was before.

So continue to do what you are doing. And don't let anyone tell you that you are wrong. If you are wrong, you will discover it for yourself. But I am so appreciative of your sharing with us your listening experience and discussing what you are finding. Like Diogenes, you will be the lantern that shows the rest of us the way.

[MikeNYC]

janebse said:

So clever, Cadeho. That's the perfect answer.

None of the Motown historians and/or musicians have ever said that Kell Osborne sounded like Al Bryant. I have no idea where that comment or thought came from. Kell has nothing to do with our wanting to identify Al's voice.

I explained it to you,Jane...The two of them do not have a familiar voice. They sound alike because,you don't really lknow what they sound like. That's where it came from. It has everything to do with getting to know Al's voice. Keep on thinking you hear Al,when you hear Eddie. That's on you,you must have time to waste. Motown "Historians and /or musicians can't give you a clear picture of what Al,or Kell sounds like. Thanks to Kalisa,she let you know what Kell sounds like. Maybe she has those "historians" beat? They couldn't tell you what kell sounds like. :laughing

[janebse]

I knew what Kell sounded like before. Kalisa did not introduce me to Kell. I've known what Kell sounded like for years. It's not Kell I was talking about but Al's voice. I have no idea why you want to pretend to believe it's Kell. Years ago Kell made records where he sang lead. Unfortunately we haven't yet found records where Al is singing lead unless it is a small phrase or so on a recorded LIVE Temptation performance or on a Distants record or Temptations record.

I'll write to Kell and let him know how much you are fussing over him. It'll give him a kick.

[MikeNYC]

janebse said:

I knew what Kell sounded like before. Kalisa did not introduce me to Kell. I've known what Kell sounded like for years. It's not Kell I was talking about but Al's voice. I have no idea why you want to pretend to believe it's Kell. Years ago Kell made records where he sang lead. Unfortunately we haven't yet found records where Al is singing lead unless it is a small phrase or so on a recorded LIVE Temptation performance or on a Distants record or Temptations record.

I'll write to Kell and let him know how much you are fussing over him. It'll give him a kick.

I never pretended anything of the sort. I said that you don't know what Al sounds like,no historian can tell us without playing one of Al's songs,which he does not have. The Distants are NOT the Temptations. Even with them,they have nothing that the ear can identify with Al. No pretending,here. :nono

[Elbridge]

janebse said:

Cadeho,

What you are doing in listening and relistening to the music and singing, the separation of voices, the separation of musical instruments IS EXACTLY what the great American composer Aaron Copeland said must be done to understand and appreciate music. ANd he admitted it is difficult and takes time, much time. Furthermore, he added that many famous musicians are not able to do this. They play their instrument beautifully BUT THEY DO NOT REALLY KNOW MUSIC. So my hat off to you for the time and effort you have taken and are continuing to take. I have been working on this skill for several years, but I think you are way ahead of me. The only thing I can claim is that I am a much better listener now than I was before.

So continue to do what you are doing. And don't let anyone tell you that you are wrong. If you are wrong, you will discover it for yourself. But I am so appreciative of your sharing with us your listening experience and discussing what you are finding. Like Diogenes, you will be the lantern that shows the rest of us the way.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jane. That's how you develop a "musical" ear. You have to listen, listen, and listen some more. Really listen. You seem to be doing that. I love that you are. I wish more did it.

Ed

[PaulzFan24]

This is to help/aid in Cadeho's theory/statement:
"Singer, Musician. He was a member of the original line-up of Motown's biggest act, The Temptations. He was a fine falsetto tenor vocalist and sang lead on some of the vocal group's earliest songs, such as "May I Have This Dance," "Isn't She Pretty," and possibly a number of others that were never attributed to him. After an unceremonious departure from The Temptations (allegedly because of his unreliability and alcoholism), Mr. Bryant would appear in many local groups in and around Detroit, Michigan. He was even - very briefly - a member of The Dramatics, another well-known outfit.
Cause of death: Liver failure"
quoted from from a gravesite lookup webpage.

www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7524017&pt=Elbridge%20'Al'%20Bryant

I have a question for everyone, but is more aimed at Mike, how do ya'll{me included} know that Al never recorded lead on a song, or shared lead, or had an easily identifiable part on a song? We do not know what is in Motown's vaults. There are only a few selected people who definitely know 100% for sure if such a track or record exists. Mike, since you're so sure that no such track or record exists, what will you do if/when such a track or record re-emerges. If we were with Al or in the Motown recording studio 24/7/365 all through the Tempts w/al era there, then yeah, I'd believe that there is no record of Al. But we weren't, and we really have no idea of what lies in those vaults of Motown's, maybe there is even a hot, hopping joint featuring dual lead by Al and Otis!! Wouldn't that just be a cherry-blueberry pie!!

[MikeNYC]

PaulzFan24 said:

This is to help/aid in Cadeho's theory/statement:
"Singer, Musician. He was a member of the original line-up of Motown's biggest act, The Temptations. He was a fine falsetto tenor vocalist and sang lead on some of the vocal group's earliest songs, such as "May I Have This Dance," "Isn't She Pretty," and possibly a number of others that were never attributed to him. After an unceremonious departure from The Temptations (allegedly because of his unreliability and alcoholism), Mr. Bryant would appear in many local groups in and around Detroit, Michigan. He was even - very briefly - a member of The Dramatics, another well-known outfit.
Cause of death: Liver failure"
quoted from from a gravesite lookup webpage.

www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7524017&pt=Elbridge%20'Al'%20Bryant

I have a question for everyone, but is more aimed at Mike, how do ya'll{me included} know that Al never recorded lead on a song, or shared lead, or had an easily identifiable part on a song? We do not know what is in Motown's vaults. There are only a few selected people who definitely know 100% for sure if such a track or record exists. Mike, since you're so sure that no such track or record exists, what will you do if/when such a track or record re-emerges. If we were with Al or in the Motown recording studio 24/7/365 all through the Tempts w/al era there, then yeah, I'd believe that there is no record of Al. But we weren't, and we really have no idea of what lies in those vaults of Motown's, maybe there is even a hot, hopping joint featuring dual lead by Al and Otis!! Wouldn't that just be a cherry-blueberry pie!!

Like you know that they have recordings of Al in the vaults. Motown didn't see fit to release them if there are any such recordings. I know that they have not been heard,and YOU didn't hear them. Since you have a strong belief that such a recording exists..you must have been with them 24/7,yourself. What was it like? Did Al record "FLOAT ON" ? The man was a second tenor who could at times go into a falsetto note. But, like I said...I see all this maybe and what if's...but the truth is YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT AL SOUNDS LIKE. Do you? :nono

[Elbridge]

None of us, not even Mike as he has intimated in the past, know what Al sounds like.

Ed

[MikeNYC]

ThaFunkyFakeTation said:

None of us, not even Mike as he has intimated in the past, know what Al sounds like.

Ed

That's all.

[Nupeman88]

PaulzFan24 said:

This is to help/aid in Cadeho's theory/statement:
"Singer, Musician. He was a member of the original line-up of Motown's biggest act, The Temptations. He was a fine falsetto tenor vocalist and sang lead on some of the vocal group's earliest songs, such as "May I Have This Dance," "Isn't She Pretty," and possibly a number of others that were never attributed to him. After an unceremonious departure from The Temptations (allegedly because of his unreliability and alcoholism), Mr. Bryant would appear in many local groups in and around Detroit, Michigan. He was even - very briefly - a member of The Dramatics, another well-known outfit.
Cause of death: Liver failure"
quoted from from a gravesite lookup webpage.

www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7524017&pt=Elbridge%20'Al'%20Bryant

I have a question for everyone, but is more aimed at Mike, how do ya'll{me included} know that Al never recorded lead on a song, or shared lead, or had an easily identifiable part on a song? We do not know what is in Motown's vaults. There are only a few selected people who definitely know 100% for sure if such a track or record exists. Mike, since you're so sure that no such track or record exists, what will you do if/when such a track or record re-emerges. If we were with Al or in the Motown recording studio 24/7/365 all through the Tempts w/al era there, then yeah, I'd believe that there is no record of Al. But we weren't, and we really have no idea of what lies in those vaults of Motown's, maybe there is even a hot, hopping joint featuring dual lead by Al and Otis!! Wouldn't that just be a cherry-blueberry pie!!

Hey((( PaulzFan24))) I believe that you and Cadeho are on to something. If you refer to post #105, I said that I too, heard a different high tenor on some of the Tempts early recordings. I haven't listened to my "Meet The Temptations album in a while, but I heard a voice that's distinct and different from Eddie's voice. It could indeed be that of Al's. I was surprised to hear that he was briefly a member of the Dramatics. Al and Bo have a few things in common.((LOL))In another thread, someone said that Al's voice was similiar to Ted Taylor's voice. I happen to know what Ted Taylor sounded like. Ted sang in a high tenor voice most of the time. He could sing falsetto effortless, but his tenor was different from Eddie Kendricks. If some of you people are familiar with Ted Taylor, you can realize what I'm saying.

[janebse]

In one of the first posts in this column, Cadeho says,

"...then with the Melvin part.. that is him as you pointed out, 'no you don't rate' I think Eddie asks 'Why?' and he answers, 'you ain't got just what it takes...'"

Cadeho, I am curious as to why you think the "Why?" is Eddie and not Al. I was listening to "Isn't She Pretty?" this morning. All these years I had just accepted it was Eddie singing that song and that it was Al asking "Why?" I know you've been carefully analyzing this song. I don't think the person asking "Why?" is the same person that's answering.

[Cadeho]

ThaFunkyFakeTation said:

None of us, not even Mike as he has intimated in the past, know what Al sounds like.

Ed

As I recall, what started all of this in the other thread about "My Pillow" was me identifying the three voices singing after Melvin sings "my pillow." Why did I list Melvin, Otis, Al, and Paul (to which Mike said that couldn't be)? Well Melvin and Paul are obvious, and the first voice after Melvin sounds like Otis. Now, with Eddie singing the lead, why would he then back himself up if it's a group thing? Unless Al wasn't there to record, it should be his voice that follows Otis'. It's not impossible that Eddie could sing lead and join the others. The thing that Mike's making it seem is that Al never sang at all and there are no samples in the some twenty singles during his tenure.

Thanks to Jane and Ed. Believe me, I drove some roommates crazy doing it. I only do it when I really like the singers and try to figure out who's who. As for instrumentals, I guess that goes back to music class and my aunt asking me what instrument was playing.

Jane, about the "why?" in "Isn't She Pretty," actually there was a time I thought it could be Otis. It sounded like Eddie to me after hearing his voice on TCB, I believe he said, "Hey Diana, let's do that one more time!"

As for the lead on "Isn't She Pretty," if that is indeed Eddie, why does he sound so weird? It's like he completely strained his voice and it sounds so rough even in the parts without the falsetto like in the part at the end. The group's singing, "she's so fine so fine so fine" and I can't tell what the lead lyrics are, but the voice doesn't match Eddie's to me. If it is it sounds like he's pushing a boulder and trying to sing. And perhaps that is Al I hear that sounds like Eddie in the background.