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Post by kalisa2 on May 24, 2004 13:27:27 GMT -5
P.S. Dope pushers do not deserve to be absolved from their guilt. They are knowingly endanger others lives. And Kalisa, saying that if not Bobby then others may have turned David on to drugs, is no excuse for him having done it. It's the same as if telling someone whose loved one has been hit by one drunk driver, that it doesn't really matter who's done it because, if not this one, maybe another one might have done it. There are plenty of drunkards on our roads. Nope! Bobby and all the others like him deserve a slap in the face not a pat on the back. I think Bobby must be considered one of the "riff-raff" friends of David's that Otis described in his book. All I can say to this is to shake my head and repeat : ...David was responsible for his own actions. Not Bobby Womack or any other Womack Brother, nor anybody else. Anything else reduces David Ruffin to a child with no ability to make choices (and a child three years o.l.d.e.r. than Womack in any case), or a mindless idiot. Please don't insult his intelligence. He was neither. He may have made bad choices (as we all do somtimes) but they were his own. I can't get the drunk driver analogy...victims of drunk drivers have no choice...people who put drugs in their own bodies have a choice. Please don't insult my intelligence with bad analogies. oh, and I must ask when Bobby turned into a 'dope pusher', from rumors that he used drugs WITH ruffin or possibly introduced him to cocaine? And what do any of those rumors have to do with the music? |
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Post by ZeldaFScott on May 24, 2004 13:33:50 GMT -5
Never mind.
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Post by MikeNYC on May 25, 2004 15:37:35 GMT -5
All I can say to this is to shake my head and repeat : ...David was responsible for his own actions. Not Bobby Womack or any other Womack Brother, nor anybody else. Anything else reduces David Ruffin to a child with no ability to make choices (and a child three years o.l.d.e.r. than Womack in any case), or a mindless idiot. Please don't insult his intelligence. He was neither. He may have made bad choices (as we all do somtimes) but they were his own. I can't get the drunk driver analogy...victims of drunk drivers have no choice...people who put drugs in their own bodies have a choice. Please don't insult my intelligence with bad analogies. oh, and I must ask when Bobby turned into a 'dope pusher', from rumors that he used drugs WITH ruffin or possibly introduced him to cocaine? And what do any of those rumors have to do with the music? About as much as drugs have to do with this thread.....nothing.But,at least we give David the credit of having a mind of his own. I've heard a lot of bad things about Bobby Womack like doing benifit shows for Eddie...and keeping all the money that he promised Eddie's family,damn the drugs! |
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Post by kalisa2 on May 25, 2004 18:45:25 GMT -5
About as much as drugs have to do with this thread.....nothing.But,at least we give David the credit of having a mind of his own. I've heard a lot of bad things about Bobby Womack like doing benifit shows for Eddie...and keeping all the money that he promised Eddie's family,damn the drugs! Yes, I've heard the same things about Bobby, and the oddest thing to me is me here DEFENDING him in any sort of way... LOL!!!!... I do not hold Bobby Womack in any kind of high regard as a person. But a) he isn't/wasn't a traditional 'dope pusher' (user, more like it...just like David) b) David DID have a mind of his own and c) the song that brought all this on is a good song  . "Take what's good and leave the rest".... Womack is a talented artist, we can take that from him and leave the rest. |
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Post by MikeNYC on May 25, 2004 19:20:03 GMT -5
Yes, I've heard the same things about Bobby, and the oddest thing to me is me here DEFENDING him in any sort of way... LOL!!!!... I do not hold Bobby Womack in any kind of high regard as a person. But a) he isn't/wasn't a traditional 'dope pusher' (user, more like it...just like David) b) David DID have a mind of his own and c) the song that brought all this on is a good song . "Take what's good and leave the rest".... Womack is a talented artist, we can take that from him and leave the rest. Do you know this for sure? It has been said that his brother Curtis got Mary Wells strung out on herion,does influence run in the family? |
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Post by kalisa2 on May 25, 2004 19:26:23 GMT -5
Do you know this for sure? It has been said that his brother Curtis got Mary Wells strung out on herion,does influence run in the family? I'm sure that Mary Wells also had a mind of her own . She also seems to have been addicted to Womacks, for whatever reason  . Sorry, as 'evil dope pushers' as Bobby or Womacks MAY have been, as influential as they may have been, I will vote 'personal responsibility' every time...and if the coffee is too freakin' hot, DO NOT put it between your legs, either . That's just flat-out common sense, as is leaving drugs alone. |
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Post by ZeldaFScott on May 25, 2004 21:29:02 GMT -5
Yep, as good old Nancy Reagan put it:"Just say no!" Easy as one, two, c ... :laughing :laughing :laughing
Sorry, I do not agree. There are manyfold reasons for someone to venture into such adventures as drug use, for example. One of them is proving to be a real friend to someone who is important to you. Just the same as proving to a man that you love him by prostituting yourself ... but I don't want to expand on it further. Decisions in real life are most often not based on clear cut assumptions.
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Post by kalisa2 on May 25, 2004 21:38:33 GMT -5
Yep, as good old Nancy Reagan put it:"Just say no!" Easy as one, two, c ...  Sorry, I do not agree. There are manyfold reasons for someone to venture into such adventures as drug use, for example. One of them is proving to be a real friend to someone who is important to you. Just the same as proving to a man that you love him by prostituting yourself ... but I don't want to expand on it further. Decisions in real life are most often not based on clear cut assumptions. Of course they aren't, or nobody would use drugs or do anything bad for them. Poor david was always victim, nothing was ever his own fault, he was led by the nose to his own destruction. I give up. You win. You happy now? |
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Post by ZeldaFScott on May 25, 2004 21:52:24 GMT -5
No, how could anyone be happy, knowing what happened to David and others at the hands of so called loving friends? I wasn't there, so I can't say what happened to David. But David, in a sense, symbolizes the kids I've seen going to pieces like him. All I am saying is, that "free will" is not always at work, especially in situations where emotions and psychological problems come into play. I do not excuse David (or any others' self-destruction), but I also don't consider people who initiate such behavior as friends. To be honest, I truly view Bobby's "Forever Love" gesture somehow perverted  Of course, that's only my opinion. |
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Post by Aba21 on May 25, 2004 21:57:54 GMT -5
Yep, as good old Nancy Reagan put it:"Just say no!" Easy as one, two, c ... Sorry, I do not agree. There are manyfold reasons for someone to venture into such adventures as drug use, for example. One of them is proving to be a real friend to someone who is important to you. Just the same as proving to a man that you love him by prostituting yourself ... but I don't want to expand on it further. Decisions in real life are most often not based on clear cut assumptions. Maybe it would be easy for you to say no......but for longtime users that's not the case and since you think its that easy, it leads me to believe you have not had much to do with people who do drugs............too bad because if you knew naything aobut drugs you would know that it don't take anyone to make you put anything in your nose but yourself..........and if it wasn't Bobby it would have been someone else.................you need to stop trying to save David's reputation and just enjoy what he left you.........great music cause you are way off base with no common sense at all when it comes to this subject............this isn't drinking....or some other vice like smoking and it is not east to just say no........... |
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Post by ZeldaFScott on May 25, 2004 22:05:56 GMT -5
Aba, I think you misunderstood my remark about Nancy R. I always thought her attitude was silly. Of course, I know that it's not as easy as she wanted it to look to stay away from drugs. I am enjoying David's voice each and every day, by the way. My point in this discussion is not to absolve David or safe his reputation. My point is that friends don't turn friends on to drugs. Therefore, the point that others would have done it, if Bobby or whomever hadn't been first, is not convincing. He did it! That's all that counts. And he now tries to sell his music on the memory of a person in whose destruction he was instrumental. Makes me wanna  |
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Post by kalisa2 on May 25, 2004 22:09:18 GMT -5
Aba, I think you misunderstood my remark about Nancy R. I always thought her attitude was silly. Of course, I know that it's not as easy as she wanted it to look to stay away from drugs. I am enjoying David's voice each and every day, by the way. My point in this discussion is not to absolve David or safe his reputation. My point is that friends don't turn friends on to drugs. Therefore, the point that others would have done it, if Bobby or whomever hadn't been first, is not convincing. He did it! That's all that counts. And he now tries to sell his music on the memory of a person in whose destruction he was instrumental. Makes me wanna I still think you're giving Bobby way too much power. He was younger than David, he was as much a victim of the drugs as David was, has suffered addiction all his life as far as we know, it could have been a case of 'kids' playing with fire together more than him grabbing David by the collar and shoving cocaine up his nose. But since you were there and saw the circumstances, and know for sure it went down some other way, I guess we should hang Bobby in effigy. |
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Post by ZeldaFScott on May 25, 2004 22:14:33 GMT -5
Okay, you are right. I can't say "He did it!" I should rather say, I believe he did it (after what I've read). I only wish I could find the source ... Damn. I am quite sure, it was himself who said so somewhere. This is killing me ...
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Post by Aba21 on May 25, 2004 22:17:20 GMT -5
Aba, I think you misunderstood my remark about Nancy R. I always thought her attitude was silly. Of course, I know that it's not as easy as she wanted it to look to stay away from drugs. I am enjoying David's voice each and every day, by the way. My point in this discussion is not to absolve David or safe his reputation. My point is that friends don't turn friends on to drugs. Therefore, the point that others would have done it, if Bobby or whomever hadn't been first, is not convincing. He did it! That's all that counts. And he now tries to sell his music on the memory of a person in whose destruction he was instrumental. Makes me wanna Because it was drugs.......he can't be a friend.....then all the people who got me to try cigarettes, cigars...alcohol and other things are not my friends either? Is it because drugs are illegal? I don't get it...........peers always try things together...no matter what........and if for some reason I like what he gave me I should noe denounce him as my friend...............please that don't make a bit of sense................. |
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Post by ZeldaFScott on May 25, 2004 22:21:42 GMT -5
Yes, it makes a lot of sense. Would you call someone a friend who knew that offering you a drink most likely turned you into an alcoholic? I wouldn't.
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. "Take what's good and leave the rest".... Womack is a talented artist, we can take that from him and leave the rest.
