Article re: Paul's death

[MikeNYC]

Aba21 said:

I still believe that he had the right to write any kind of book he wanted. He was there. I agree that if he is being held accountable for what he said so should Eddie. The other guys chose not to write or tell and I applaud them for their decision. I expect Otis be lambasted for some of the things he wrote but he still had the right to write it. He had to know he would anger some.

In terms of his own faults, I'm still waiting to discuss anything about him that we have not discussed all ready. I'm not saying he didn't do anything but what did he do that hasn't been discussed?

Even if what Eddie said didn't go any further than Detroit......are those people anymore strangers to Paul than anybody else who didn't know him.............and by being in Detroit.you think his family didn't see those quotes from Eddie. No body is saying what Eddie said was bad so why is what Otis said so bad.

We have about 300 members on this board, most of whom never saw the classic five perform. How are you going to use this small amount of people to ascertain whether or not anybody saw Paul drunk on stage with Richard singing for him or whether David was at all the shows? This is not a fair and equitable cross section of Temptaion fans from that era to be able to ask that question. Maybe a poll of who actually saw the C-5 perform would give us a better read on the number of those on this board who could even begin to answer the question.

And as far as what Otis was thinking when he wrote the things he wrote, how can anyone on here answer that question? How can anyone speak to what any of them were actually thinking?

Simple...Read the finished product,that says it all !

[MikeNYC]

Ivory said:

Maybe we need to be asking Mike if he has ever SEEN Ali Woodson using a trick microphone.

Truth be told,when I saw him on 51st street,he said he left in on the back of the bus. ;D

[kalisa2]

Kalisa,the Detroit Free Press is not a national publication,it is a LOCAL newspaper.No,it was not common knowledge,I can't confirm what you are saying because it's not correct.

I can't find the source of this article, are we sure it was only published in the Detroit Free Press? Do we know it wasn't picked up by other news sources? McRibs says her Mom knew about it before the fact, Aba says HE knew about it...so yes it was common knowledge among Tempts fans at the time. Quit trying to bury that fact.

I do agree, I would have loved to read more about the Gamble-Huff episode, I would have loved to read more about the singing and harmonies and how they created those, I would have loved to read more about the peripheral workings at Motown. But that's not what he wrote.

Class, no class, less class, more class...he wrote what he felt was his story. Whether his intent was to trash his group mates or spit on their grave, or to tell a story of them trashing themselves and what was in part HIS group in the process (by their own bad choices and excesses and abuses)...well we each can come to our own conclusions with what we have...and hope we get more in the future to have a better picture.

You can say what he should have wrote or how he should have wrote it or what he should have said or what he shouldn't have said, or what he should have done or whatever you want. Life is full of woulda coulda shouldas and if its your lifes work to stand in judgement of Otis Williams, go for it my friend. You nor I ever walked a foot in his shoes. I don't say he was right...but I don't know for a fact he was all wrong, either.

I do appreciate your sharing your vast extent of knowledge about the Temptations We disagree at least in part about what was or wasn't Otis's story to tell.

[mcribs]

Well done, Kalisa. You'd think Mike would get TIRED of dodging the issue.

[kalisa2]

Why do you deny that? It was not Otis' story to tell.

One mo' time, if it wasn't Otis's story to tell, then it wasn't Eddie's story to tell. Why do YOU deny THAT?

Most importantly, said Kendricks, Williams had apparently overcome his drinking problem.

But then things started to sour. None of us seemed to be getting out of the group as much as we were putting into it. Paul was drinking and running around. Suddenly, he didn’t have his moves anymore. We tried not to notice for a while, but it was too late: He was a sick man.

I’ve seen Paul Williams every way imaginable - drunk, ecstatic, furious, down and out.

[Temptress]

I am glad Otis wrote the book. Glad Otis told things from his point of view........ .No one else has written a book so what else do we have to go on? ;D I think in the book Otis said more positive things about Paul, David, and Eddie than he did negative. SO WHAT IF PAUL HAD A DRINKING PROBLEM or if he had a GIRLFRIEND. Someone besides Otis knew....... As much as we Love Paul he was HUMAN! IMPERFECT! I accept that. I love him anyway

[Aba21]

The point of this thread was to give another side to the story of Paul's death, not to villify Eddie or anybody else who said anything. Otis book could have had mor stuff about how they made the recordings and what went on in the studio but anything he said still would be his version of what happened and again............that's all it is. I don't understand that because Eddie felt he didn't want to say anything, means that Otis should folllow suit. And David said he was going to but we lost him before he had a chance. How do we know what story he would have told. Of course it would be different from Otis, it would have been David's version, just as Richard's will be his version. Just because you sang lead doesn't mean your story has more validity than someone else. It may be more interesting but that's about it. You can say you think Otis shouldn't have written the book but many think he should have.

Gladys and Smokey didn't say anything but they weren't in the same boat. But somebody should have spoke up cause they all got screwed whether they spoke up or not.

[BlueEyedSoul]

Aba21 said:

The point of this thread was to give another side to the story of Paul's death, not to villify Eddie or anybody else who said anything. Otis book could have had mor stuff about how they made the recordings and what went on in the studio but anything he said still would be his version of what happened and again............that's all it is. I don't understand that because Eddie felt he didn't want to say anything, means that Otis should folllow suit. And David said he was going to but we lost him before he had a chance. How do we know what story he would have told. Of course it would be different from Otis, it would have been David's version, just as Richard's will be his version. Just because you sang lead doesn't mean your story has more validity than someone else. It may be more interesting but that's about it. You can say you think Otis shouldn't have written the book but many think he should have.

I am totally with you on this Aba

[kalisa2]

Aba21 said:

The point of this thread was to give another side to the story of Paul's death, not to villify Eddie or anybody else who said anything.

I hope nobody is taking my bringing up Eddie and what he said as me trying to villify Eddie, Aba. That isn't my intent. I want more to see some even-handedness or fairmindedness around here...what's good for one should be good for all, if they so choose. If Otis is a dirty dog for his business practices, so is Melvin who shared in them. If Otis is classless for bringing up Paul's drinking, so was Eddie. I'm not saying I agree with any or all of those statements, but what's fair is fair, whether we 'like' the individual behind the actions or not.

[Aba21]

kalisa2 said:

I hope nobody is taking my bringing up Eddie and what he said as me trying to villify Eddie, Aba. That isn't my intent. I want more to see some even-handedness or fairmindedness around here...what's good for one should be good for all, if they so choose. If Otis is a dirty dog for his business practices, so is Melvin who shared in them. If Otis is classless for bringing up Paul's drinking, so was Eddie. I'm not saying I agree with any or all of those statements, but what's fair is fair, whether we 'like' the individual behind the actions or not.

I agree totally with that. And to say Otis hasn't been talked about like the others is not true. He has been. I don't really believe anyone is talking about hate. At least i hope not. You can have your favorites and still be a Temps fan.

[MikeNYC]

kalisa2 said:

I can't find the source of this article, are we sure it was only published in the Detroit Free Press? Do we know it wasn't picked up by other news sources? McRibs says her Mom knew about it before the fact, Aba says HE knew about it...so yes it was common knowledge among Tempts fans at the time. Quit trying to bury that fact.

Question,do we know that it wasn't only published in the Detroit Free Press? How did Mc
Ribs moms find out? Ask did she know about this before,or after Paul died?You cite two people and declare it "common knowledge"? That's funny.I was a Tempt fan at the time,and I say it was not common knowledge. Hell, Paul's existence wasn't common knowledge until that damn book came out..You should stop trying to bury these facts.

[kalisa2]

I said,and I quote

so yes it was common knowledge among Tempts fans at the time.


i.e. people who were Tempts fans at the time knew some of the stories, and yes who Paul Williams was. Aba...? McRibs? Do you have answers to Mike's questions?

I asked first, about whether the article went further than Detroit Free Press, or even if that was the origin of the article. I don't know that for sure.

[MikeNYC]

kalisa2 said:

Class, no class, less class, more class...he wrote what he felt was his story. Whether his intent was to trash his group mates or spit on their grave, or to tell a story of them trashing themselves and what was in part HIS group in the process (by their own bad choices and excesses and abuses)...well we each can come to our own conclusions with what we have...and hope we get more in the future to have a better picture.

No class,plain & simple.QuestioN:Why would Otis write in his revised edition of TRASH,that he is going to say things now that Ruffin & Kendricks are dead,that he didn't say before if his intent wasn't to trash? Why excuse this classless act and hide BEHIND "Telling a story"? Please explain this to me? While your at it,can you explain your statement about "bad choices""and excesses and abuses? Where does this come from?

[Temptress]

could people who went to concerts tell whether paul was drunk or not?

[mcribs]

Mike: My mother does not remember exactly where she heard about Paul's drinking, but she read about it. She has never been to Detroit, in fact, she has never been north of NJ. She reads alot but never out of town newspapers. She said it may well have been the announcement of his death, but she said that she doesn't think that it was an interview with one of the Tempts, it was more like an AP article. She said that she remembered it because she already knew about David and she figured that if one of them died prematurely due to substance abuse, it would have been David.