New Temptation group

[MikeNYC]

They know when they hear it! They know who Dennis is when he sings. Same formula applies to Otis. Let the Temptations go,the singers you have now have enough talent not to have to use ex members voices to promote your concerts ! Sing your own songs! Tempts lost their identity when they started the revolving door! In that case, I would agree.

[tdallasw]

the venues wouldn't let that fly. People want to hear Temptations classic tunes when they attend. Lay off, Mike. It's not their fault. They have to sing what people paid to hear.

[sukkafu]

that is why mike is upset. it's like the old days of amway when your friend would invite you to a spaghetti dinner and there would be no spaghetti when you showed up!

[Aba21]

That is not true! Identity! What Identity. The name Temptations is all the id they need.. Since the begining there has been a group of men who call themselves the Temptations. Otis williams has been in that group from the out set. He has never stop singing as a Temptation for over 40 years and never tried to stop any of the others from performing, only from calling themselves Temptations which legally they are not. Why is it important for Ali and Glenn and Richard and to some extent Dennis to want to still be called Temptations. It is because their greatest success came as Temptations and I fully understand that. They WERE Temptations but not now. And there's nothing wrong with that. Sing all you want. Sing anywhere you want but not as Temptations because under the rules as they apply at this time and juncture there is only one group leagally allowed to call themselves the Temptations and that is Otis Group. Always has been Otis group. and for the forseeable future will remain so. Why should his group give up the title for the ex-members of the group. That's ridiuclous. So if your group can't use the name, disparage the one who has it. That makes real good sense. Where I come from from my parents would say right here that's why WE can't ever have anything cause we're always tearing each other down to make ourselves look better as opposed to all them supporting each other. It's okay to say you had business differences and it didn't work. Wish the others success and move on! Leave the dirty laundry in the laundry room!

Listen Dennis may be the best singing ex-Temptation and Richard may have been in the group before and longer than any other ex-Temptation as well as some current ones and Glenn and Ali and Louis and so on and so forth. But the key word here is ex-Temptations.

I am not a New Jersey Net anymore. I am an ex-New Jersey Net. I fulfilled my contractual obligation with them and they are not required to give me anything nor do they owe me anything. I cannot have a barnstorming team named the New Jersey Nets. It is illegal and I would be sued by the league and lose. You work for Ford motor company get fired and go home and make cars calling them Fords....uh...Not in this life.

I do not know exactly how O gained control of the group and its name but he has it. Whether it was some under the table backstabbing deal or not. Leagally he owns it and has a right to sue anyone trying to horn in on what he owns. It's the American way.

Those guys do not have a right to bill themselves an anything other than ex-Temptations. That's it. Dennis learned the hard way and now is making a recovery through his voice not his lawyer. He has resigned himself to that fact and moved on. We need to do the same. Write books, go on talk shows if anyone wants you and say or write anything you think will tell your side of the story but you CAN NOT bill yourself as Temptations. Bottom line!

SO WHAT ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT HERE!

[sukkafu]

i was reading the clippers-chicago bulls recap on espn tonight and it said that surprisingly enough the united center was packed with 22,000 people to watch two 20 win 40 loss teams play.

yes, the chicago bulls won 6 banners with phil jackson as coach, michael jordan and scotty pippen on the team, and those 3 are no longer on the team, and they wouldn't have the right to call themselves bulls any longer.

but, i don't see anybody out here in my neck of the woods wearing bulls hats or t shirts. so i guess the current chicago bulls have the name and the rights-
but the nba arenas still sell out when michael plays for the wizards. the glory days for the bulls are gone.

nobody's fooled into running down to their local arena when the bulls come to town. jalen rose and eddy curry and tyson chandler are nice hard working guys, but you won't see the fans rushing to oakland or atlanta or ny or san antonio for the current bulls!

[janebse]

The Chicago Bulls were the Chicago Bulls before Michael and Scotty and Phil. They are the Chicago Bulls after Michael and Scotty and Phil.

From all my reading I understand that Michael's presence not only sold out all the seats for years, but also for future years. The Bulls' crowds in Chicago are still the result of tickets sold when Michael was there. That is why the Jerries, Krause in particular, could feel confident pushing Phil out. Krause was the "infamous" general manager who said it was "management" that won games, not coaches and athletes." Krause was never famous for his people skills.
I believe the Bulls had long lines of people on the wait list to buy season tickets which meant they could survive very well a number of years without Michael. One reporter estimated 20 years of lucrative survival as a result of Michael. That is why they still outsell the Lakers and the Knicks, although not the Wizards.

Plus Chicago is a sports-loving town.

And, I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with anything, but Michael loves Chicago. He never plays his best against Chicago. When they introduce him at games the Wizards have against the Bulls in Chicago, the people clap and clap and Michael has tears in his eyes. And the people roar, "Put Michael in," and if the Wizards are ahead, Michael won't go in. He hates to run up the score against Chicago. I think his presence is still at Chicago but that is an intangible love affair between MJ and the people of Chicago.

But, no matter what, as ABA says, Michael was a member of the Chicago Bulls. He is now an ex-member. He is not playing as as Chicago Bull. He is playing as a Wizard.

ABA, after the guys decided on the name Temptations, and it was approved by Berry, Otis immediately took legal action to copyright it or whatever you do with names. Motown also took legal action to do that. That situation was resolved. From the very beginning Otis was the Temptation who dealt with Motown. Perhaps he was the one most interested in business, or the one with the best people skills in dealing with management. They were all very young and inexperienced (including Berry), and I am sure it was a learning process.

[Aba21]

Well Jane there seems to be a large faction of folks who don't want to give him credit for that. I know from accounts that I've seen and read that Eddie said he and Otis started the group. But when the paperwork was filed by Otis, where was Eddie? If it was so important to them to say something later, why didn't they do something when they had the chance? I don't believe for a second that they all didn't know at some point and time what Otis was doing. If they didn't that is their misfortune of not staying on top of what was going on or didn't think it was important enough to do something about. At the time you say this occured, they were just another group without a hit song so the name Temptations carried no weight in anybody's eyes and they could have said Otis do whatever you want. Who knows what happened. Others say they each had individual contracts so what right did anyof them have to the name. If the name became available and Otis took advantage of hit, why blame him? Because he is not a lead singer? Get real!

If Eddie or David had done it would you treat them like you're treating Otis? I think not. That's my problem with this. Because the man was not one of the great lead singers of alltime he has no right to the name Temptations. Because he is not front and center he doesn't deserve credit for anything this group has accomplished. Wrong!!!

I have one question for all of you. Based on what you know, would you have left your group in the hands of David, Eddie or Dennis at that time, or even Paul. I wouldn't have. Yes they all of guilty as sin of various improprieties of life but somehow one of them somehow gained control and is still alive today to talk about HIS version of the events that happened. So we should just beat the crap of him verbally for it. Sure we know some of them were lies. But we have no written accounts from others who were there to compare to his story. I know some things were lies and mike knows some things were lies but he and I don't know it all. I actually think that what I really know is very little compared to the size of the story. I wasn't there for it all just moments.

Wrong or right it is what it is. I think he has a fine group now who gives a great show and if you're still living in the dark ages waiting for the next David, Eddie or Dennis, you are missing a great show. These guys carry on the legacy of the group in the way it should be carried. No they aren't the classic five or HOF6 but they are the TEMPTATIONS of our time and anybody else is not.

I'm sure many of you will still not give them their due because of your predjudices but that's fine. We all have our opinons and mine is no better than any of yours. I loved the first group Temptations and I still have love for them today through their recordings and videos and that is enough for me. I refuse to quit on them because 4/5 of the group is dead. That is being narrow minded. You need to be able to separate the two and go forward. To say Otis should quit or stop calling his group the Temptations because he is not a lead singer is just too stupid and I know we on this board are smarter than that! ;D

[Ivory Fair]

There are too many groups going around with the TEMPTATIONS name. WE've got DENNIS, ALI, GELNN, DAMON

In defense of Damon, while his group DOES sing Temptations songs, his groups' name doesn't have ANY variation of "Temptations" in it.

But I have to disagree. There could never be TOO Many Tempts' groups. As long as they are each doing their part to NOT deceive people, I'd be glad to see any of them perform.

[Aba21]

I agree with you, Ivory. Too many for who? Support the ones you like and leave the rest for others to like. I don't like the Celtics and never have but a lot of people do and who am I to say break up the Celtics!!!!!

[Aba21]

Suk...if it happened as you say with Berry and Otis filing for the name Temptations, was it done without the others consent or knowledge or were they advised of the situation and chose not to participate in those proceedings.

This is a story that Berry could give his version on, Richard could speak to it because he was the man involved with everything back then. But there would be few others with the knowledge to give us an answer to that question.

[Ivory Fair]

Ok, so we can all get our bearings, here's how the name thing went down as I understand it.

According to O's book, (first edition page 181) In 1966 long after the Tempts had been established as a powerhouse at Motown and obviously while all of the "classic" Tempts were in the group, someone suggested to them that they have their name copyrighted. Otis says he filed the paperwork only to find out that Motown had gained the copyright two weeks before. He says they didn't think much of it because there existed at Motown the "family atmosphere" and there was no reason to be concerned. They didn't think much more of it.

Fast forward to 1976 when he says those feelings of "family" were long gone. Only Melvin and Otis were in the group. David, Eddie and Dennis were all out and pursuing solo careers. Paul of course was deceased and Ali was just a twinkle in Otis' eye. The book says that Melvin and Otis fought Motown (not legally) and "they reversed the rights back to us." Why Richard wasn't involved in that; your guess is as good as mine.

In a 1999 court case Otis successfully filed an injunction against Kim English' (Melvin's widow) preventing her from granting use of the name "Temptations Review" to Ali and Richard. In that proceeding, he claimed that Motown had only granted he and Melvin PERFORMING rights to the name, not full title to the name out-right. His argument was that neither he nor Kim had the right to grant ANYONE access to the name, they only possessed rights to perform with the name with Motown's blessing.

Tempts lost their identity when they started the revolving door!

By that you mean 1968, right?

They WERE Temptations but not now.

Now Aba, they're gonna ALWAYS be Temptations. I agree, calling themselves that is another matter, but they're always Tempts in my book.

[kim]

Well I've heard advertisement on the radio for Dennis and The Review and songs like "My Girl", "Beauty's Only Skin Deep" and "Ball of Confusion" were played along with "Don't Look Any Further" what's the difference if one Tempt group advertises with the groups old school material versus the other advertising with it? With the exception of Dennis all the folks who sang lead on these tunes are dead.

[sukkafu]

aba, it was jane with the berry-otis story.

kim, what if your your dad was passed, but someone advertised that he was your dad- he's gone, right?

magic johnson left the lakers in 1992 with hiv. he still had a traveling all star team with 3 ex lakers on it, but no mention of lakers in ads-just known as magic johnson's traveling all stars.

i have no problem with ex tempts advertising themselves like this- come see glenn leonard, the former lead singer of the temptations ,live at such and such casino lounge, singing many of the tempts greatest hits like my girl, get ready, etc.
not using the old recordings, but mentioning them would be appropriate. or, using glenn's voice on them or on his leads would work.

damon's montreaux concert-which we can't access anymore- sure was a nice tribute and i enjoyed it although the montreaux website had it listed as the temptations which was incorrect.

[Ivory Fair]

kim, what if your your dad was passed, but someone advertised that he was your dad- he's gone, right?


Sukka, you and your boy Mike need to go back to analogy school. Neither one of those groups are claiming to be David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks or Melvin Franklin. They're claiming to be the Temptations, that's not the same thing.

although the montreaux website had it listed as the temptations which was incorrect.


And here you have the root of the problem. It's the local promoters who either don't know the difference or don't care who get it twisted. I refuse to believe that the Review is out there trying to PURPOSEFULLY deceive anyone.

[Aba21]

Ivory I didn't mean they were not Temptations in the true sense of the word ans somehow I know you knew that and just love to pull my leg.

You bring up a good point Ivory. I've never heard or read Where Dennis is trying to pass off the Review as the Temptations. That is strictly the local promoter trying to sell tickests before they even getr to town. By the time they arrive all the promo work is done. So I don't recall heariung that Otis worked in promotions in any city and when a promoter puts someone's elses' head over another on a poster, how do you blame Otis for that? All he can do is suggest it doesn't happen again. But that's about it.