Aint nobody coming to see you Otis

[bigbadblazer]

Does anyone know if this was spoken verbatim or did the mini series' producers use poetic license?

That always cracks me up.

[eyehearttempts]

bigbadblazer said:

That always cracks me up.

That line always has me LMAO too. The really funny part was the way Leon said it! ;D

[maria]

THE FUNNY PART IS IMAGINING DAVID SAYING IT!

TALKING ABOUT LYAO

[ramzy]

stringslady22 said:

bigbadblazer said:

That always cracks me up.

That line always has me LMAO too. The really funny part was the way Leon said it! ;D

That always had me shaking my head too, but at the same time one has to wonder bout that. There is no diminishing the impact that David had on the group once he became the front man. If the headliner request wasn't imaginary was it unreasonable?

[smooth]

ramzy said:

stringslady22 said:

That line always has me LMAO too. The really funny part was the way Leon said it! ;D

That always had me shaking my head too, but at the same time one has to wonder bout that. There is no diminishing the impact that David had on the group once he became the front man. If the headliner request wasn't imaginary was it unreasonable?

I think it was unreasonable, with a group of multiple lead singers,and tight harmonies. I think if he sang all the songs on the albums like Smokey did, then I think it would be more reasonable, but you got Eddie and Paul in the group as well, especially Eddie Kendricks.

But at the same time you could argue in Ruffin's defense,he made an argument that he was selling the records. Maybe Ruffin was right if that's what he said, I wasn't there for what went down,lol, but if what O says is true, then Ruffin might have been right.

Maybe it was reasonable being that most of The Temptations success can be attributed mainly to David Ruffin,as opposed to groups like the Chi-lites,Take 6, and Boyz II Men who's harmonies were the main reason for there success. So yeah I guess it was reasonable. I don't agree to put his name in front, but Ruffin had a point, if that's what happened.

[ramzy]

I guess the thing that stands out to me is that once upon a time they were known as Otis Williams and the Distants and we all know where Otis lead vocal skills are, were, and will be. Was there any possibility on envy on Otis' part? Was this the catalyst for the ever revolving door that has been as much a part of The Tempts history as the hits? Personally I dont see Davids request (if real) as unreasonable, it was a pretty popular thing happening at the time and he was the signature voice. That in no way diminishes what Eddie or anyone else brought to the group but just keeping it real says David was the man. I just wish there was a way for these great guys to keep their egos in check.

[janebse]

I think the line was put in as being indicative of David's ego. If you talk to any Motown person who was around in the early days, they mentioned David's ego. But the truth was that the Motown Company was well aware of Eddie Kendricks' singing appeal to audiences plus the fact that Eddie actually had greater record success after he left than David ever did. People talked about the "great David Ruffin," but they didn't buy the records. It was Eddie's voice that pulled in the ladies.

Having said all of that, I would like to add that the Temptations have always been FIVE, and that Gordy always said "all can sing lead." People may have favorites, but what made the Tempts unique is that all five could and did and still do sing lead. If you check on album sales, the albums on which David or Dennis sang lead on either all the songs or most of them had fewer sales than the albums on which lead singers alternated. In fact, the Tempts themselves refused to work with one producer who wanted just one Tempt singing lead. And they were right. That album sold the fewest of all.

I have been playing all the David songs after he left the Tempts this past week, and they get pretty boring. I fet the feeling he is shouting more than singing.

Remember their first album MEET THE TEMPTATIONS only had one David singing background on one song and no leads at all. By that time the people were beginning to love the Tempts.

As for being the catalyst for the ever revolving door, Richard was a Distant, Al Bryant was a Distant and a Temptation. Keeping five guys happy is difficult. Each has a tendency to think of himself as a solo artist. That is, until they leave and discover they are not a success on their own. Even Eddie, who had the greatest sales record of all, wanted to come back.

[maria]

Even Eddie, who had the greatest sales record of all, wanted to come back.

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM

[Beej]

janebse said:

I think the line was put in as being indicative of David's ego.

I agree. The task of capturing 40 years worth of memories in a 4 hour docudrama had to be more than a little daunting. It's fair to say that a healthy amount of creative license was employed to build strong, memorable characters and, at the same time, keep the storyline moving forward.

janebse said:

People talked about the "great David Ruffin," but they didn't buy the records. It was Eddie's voice that pulled in the ladies.

Michael Bolton's voice pulled in the ladies, too.

Just saying...


David's erratic solo career is one of those things that just confounds...unless, of course, you listen to what those who worked with him have said about the treatment he was receiving from Motown. From Clay McMurray to Johnny Bristol to Pam Sawyer to Ivy Jo Hunter...all acknowledge that David was either ignored, treated unfairly or outright punished for not toeing the line or playing "office politics."

Part of that ostracism came in the form of Motown not releasing his best material or failing to promote his singles once they hit record shelves; part of it came in the form of not pushing his albums or booking him on lucrative concert tours or TV appearances.

After "My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me)" was a Top 10 hit (#9 Pop, #2 R&B), one would assume the company would try to capitalize on that success. One would be wrong.

Motown was loaded with talent and soaring high at that time. Whether David Ruffin was a commercial success or failure made no difference to the company's bottom line. What they absolutely could not have, however, was a successful David Ruffin overshadowing the Temptations...especially when Berry was already planning to use them to build up Diana Ross' following before she went solo.

Of course, he didn't help his own cause any. If David was told to do A, B and C to get back in good graces with management, he'd do D, E and F...not because he was trying to hurt the company, but because he wanted to be treated like an adult and given the latitude to do things his way. He was a consummate professional when it came to recording, but his personal life, general attitude toward management and burgeoning drug habit made him an undesirable poster boy for the label.

The fact that his follow-up album, Feelin' Good, was barely given a chance to succeed (only one single was released, the Berry Gordy-produced "I'm So Glad I Fell For You," while songs with a better chance of commercial success -- "I Let Love Slip Away," "What You Gave Me," "Loving You (Is Hurting Me)" and "The Forgotten Man" -- were inexplicably buried) and his outstanding 1971 album was shelved for more than 30 years is a disgrace.

It's not as though David had no commercial success, though. Yes, "My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me)" and "Walk Away From Love" were his only releases to break the Pop Top 10...however, all seven of his Motown albums charted Top 40 R&B; five went Top 20, including: My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me) (#1 R&B), Feelin' Good (#9 R&B), David Ruffin (#4 R&B) and Who I Am (#5 R&B). At the same time, he charted 12 singles over his career...nine of which went Top 20 R&B, including five Top 10 hits.

Had the unreleased Hip-O Select album seen the light of day in its rightful time, there's no question it would've been another Top 10 R&B album.

Should he have been more successful? Absolutely. Was his solo career a failure? Absolutely not.

janebse said:

Having said all of that, I would like to add that the Temptations have always been FIVE, and that Gordy always said "all can sing lead."

Every time I see that -- or a comment along those lines -- I think about Eddie referring to the Tempts as his group. In his mind, he and Paul started the Temptations because -- by his reasoning -- they were the lead vocalists and Otis, Melvin and Al were the backup singers.

You have to admit, Eddie's blunt honesty was always refreshing...if not comical.

Of course, that's not how Otis sees it. Nonetheless, that's how Eddie felt...and why he thought "the Temptations" should've ceased when he and Paul left the group in '71. The fact that the Tempts carried on with Richard and Damon -- as if nothing changed -- was a major source of Eddie's long-lasting resentment toward Otis.

janebse said:

Even Eddie, who had the greatest sales record of all, wanted to come back.

I have to ask the same as <maria>...aside from Otis' claim that Eddie had a desire to build on the 1982 Reunion Tour, where does that idea come from? Eddie and David had problems with Otis and Motown almost from the outset of that tour. All the politics they hated dealing with the first time around -- both inside and outside the group -- resurfaced.

I'm not saying, it's not possible...just that it would be extremely out of character considering Eddie's on record saying he had no desire to return to the Temptations. In his words, that would've been taking a step backward.

[MissTara]

beej said:

Michael Bolton's voice pulled in the ladies, too.

Hey, speak for yourself!

[eyehearttempts]

misstara said:

beej said:

Michael Bolton's voice pulled in the ladies, too.

Hey, speak for yourself!

LMAO! ;D

[DC]

beej said:

janebse said:

I think the line was put in as being indicative of David's ego.

I agree. The task of capturing 40 years worth of memories in a 4 hour docudrama had to be more than a little daunting. It's fair to say that a healthy amount of creative license was employed to build strong, memorable characters and, at the same time, keep the storyline moving forward.


Michael Bolton's voice pulled in the ladies, too.

Just saying...


David's erratic solo career is one of those things that just confounds...unless, of course, you listen to what those who worked with him have said about the treatment he was receiving from Motown. From Clay McMurray to Johnny Bristol to Pam Sawyer to Ivy Jo Hunter...all acknowledge that David was either ignored, treated unfairly or outright punished for not toeing the line or playing "office politics."

Part of that ostracism came in the form of Motown not releasing his best material or failing to promote his singles once they hit record shelves; part of it came in the form of not pushing his albums or booking him on lucrative concert tours or TV appearances.

After "My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me)" was a Top 10 hit (#9 Pop, #2 R&B), one would assume the company would try to capitalize on that success. One would be wrong.

Motown was loaded with talent and soaring high at that time. Whether David Ruffin was a commercial success or failure made no difference to the company's bottom line. What they absolutely could not have, however, was a successful David Ruffin overshadowing the Temptations...especially when Berry was already planning to use them to build up Diana Ross' following before she went solo.

Of course, he didn't help his own cause any. If David was told to do A, B and C to get back in good graces with management, he'd do D, E and F...not because he was trying to hurt the company, but because he wanted to be treated like an adult and given the latitude to do things his way. He was a consummate professional when it came to recording, but his personal life, general attitude toward management and burgeoning drug habit made him an undesirable poster boy for the label.

The fact that his follow-up album, Feelin' Good, was barely given a chance to succeed (only one single was released, the Berry Gordy-produced "I'm So Glad I Fell For You," while songs with a better chance of commercial success -- "I Let Love Slip Away," "What You Gave Me," "Loving You (Is Hurting Me)" and "The Forgotten Man" -- were inexplicably buried) and his outstanding 1971 album was shelved for more than 30 years is a disgrace.

It's not as though David had no commercial success, though. Yes, "My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me)" and "Walk Away From Love" were his only releases to break the Pop Top 10...however, all seven of his Motown albums charted Top 40 R&B; five went Top 20, including: My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me) (#1 R&B), Feelin' Good (#9 R&B), David Ruffin (#4 R&B) and Who I Am (#5 R&B). At the same time, he charted 12 singles over his career...nine of which went Top 20 R&B, including five Top 10 hits.

Had the unreleased Hip-O Select album seen the light of day in its rightful time, there's no question it would've been another Top 10 R&B album.

Should he have been more successful? Absolutely. Was his solo career a failure? Absolutely not.


Every time I see that -- or a comment along those lines -- I think about Eddie referring to the Tempts as his group. In his mind, he and Paul started the Temptations because -- by his reasoning -- they were the lead vocalists and Otis, Melvin and Al were the backup singers.

You have to admit, Eddie's blunt honesty was always refreshing...if not comical.

Of course, that's not how Otis sees it. Nonetheless, that's how Eddie felt...and why he thought "the Temptations" should've ceased when he and Paul left the group in '71. The fact that the Tempts carried on with Richard and Damon -- as if nothing changed -- was a major source of Eddie's long-lasting resentment toward Otis.

janebse said:

Even Eddie, who had the greatest sales record of all, wanted to come back.

I have to ask the same as <maria>...aside from Otis' claim that Eddie had a desire to build on the 1982 Reunion Tour, where does that idea come from? Eddie and David had problems with Otis and Motown almost from the outset of that tour. All the politics they hated dealing with the first time around -- both inside and outside the group -- resurfaced.

I'm not saying, it's not possible...just that it would be extremely out of character considering Eddie's on record saying he had no desire to return to the Temptations. In his words, that would've been taking a step backward.

Amen Beej you speak the truth 100%. Ruffin wasn't given a chance period. Another example of why this is true I believe is his version of "Heaven Help Us All". I never knew David recorded a version of this song until I heard his unreleased album. All my life Ive always known that to be a Stevie Wonder hit song and believed no one else could touch it. Boy was I wrong. Ruffin tore it up and definitely made the definitive version. He was preaching on that song. And if you look in the liner notes of the "David" album it said that him and Stevie recorded their versions around the same time. And im a huge Stevie fan but David completely buried his version. But Stevie's version was released instead of David. But it goes to show how Motown was treating David. I seriously doubt anyone could listen to David's version and disagree if you're honest with yourselves.

[Cadeho]

janebse said:

I have been playing all the David songs after he left the Tempts this past week, and they get pretty boring. I fet the feeling he is shouting more than singing.

Amen! I bought the Hip-O rereleases and I hardly play them. They're lacking that spark except on "My Whole World Ended" and "Walk Away from Love." And Eddie's albums... I love playing them and I'm not a woman. There was something exciting about the type of songs he sang and the music which worked well capped off with Eddie's voice.

[DC]

cadeho said:

janebse said:

I have been playing all the David songs after he left the Tempts this past week, and they get pretty boring. I fet the feeling he is shouting more than singing.

Amen! I bought the Hip-O rereleases and I hardly play them. They're lacking that spark except on "My Whole World Ended" and "Walk Away from Love." And Eddie's albums... I love playing them and I'm not a woman. There was something exciting about the type of songs he sang and the music which worked well capped off with Eddie's voice.

Wow thats amazing, because it's the exact opposite for me. Since I purchased David's albums, I can't stop listening to them. Out of all the music I play I play his the most. And thats something considering im only 23. In my opinion his solo material is great. I like "My Whole World Ended" buts it's honestly the song of his I play the least. In my opinion he had so many other songs that crush it, but weren't given the chance. Because his solo career was overlooked his songs sound fresh and not played out. And also because there are so many songs that he made on Motown including (his unreleased album and his Unreleased tracks on Vol2) that I can't get enough.

Im a big fan of Eddie's solo material (bought both his volumes too), he had incredible albums as well. I guess whats separates David from Eddie and (every other singer that ever lived) is he is a chameleon when it comes to singing. Any type of melody or style he can attack it without effort and make it incredible. His first two albums (My Whole World Ended and Feeling Good) had very gritty productions. Then he did elaborate productions with Bobby Miller, Norman Whitfield, and Van Mccoy and worked his magic on all of it. Even his Tempt days from "My Girl"(more elaborate smooth production) to "Aint Too Proud" (more gritty production) he takes to it like a fish to water. I haven't seen a singer yet that can perform these tasks as well as him.

Eddie's my man and 1 of the best too but he needs more elaborate arrangements to complement his falsetto voice. That's not out of disrespect, but Eddie doesn't sound as insync with the music unless he has the melody to complement his voice. For example David and Eddie recorded the song "Go On With the Bad Self" ( Eddie's unreleased was on his Vol 2 cd). Eddie's version was ok but it just didn't seem like that particular melody fit him. He kinda seemed outta place on that track. Now when that man is singing "Girl Of My Dreams" he is flawless; period. Now David's version of "Go On" was remarkable, he just tore it up without effort. His voice is just so powerful and it seems like this track was tailor made for him, just like every other track he does. It just shows his creative ability as an artist and his God given unique and powerful voice.

[Beej]

dc said:

Wow thats amazing, because it's the exact opposite for me. Since I purchased David's albums, I can't stop listening to them. Out of all the music I play I play his the most ... In my opinion his solo material is great. I like "My Whole World Ended" buts it's honestly the song of his I play the least. In my opinion he had so many other songs that crush it, but weren't given the chance.

It's like you read my mind. I wouldn't have said it any differently.

Understandably, it's a matter of personal taste. Some prefer him at half speed; others prefer him at full throttle. I consider myself a David Ruffin fan first and a Temptations fan second. Like you, I prefer the rougher, edgier material that exhibited David's true talents and legendary vocal abilities at their unvarnished and unquestionable peak. Some people prefer his more subdued, refined vocals with the Temptations. That's fine.

There are also some who, inexplicably, feel that acknowledging the true quality of David or Eddie's solo work is somehow being disloyal to the Temptations.

I generally only take issue when someone attempts to devalue David's solo work on the basis of disappointing record sales or a scurrilous belief that his ego and/or rumored personal behavior singlehandedly caused the demise of the C5. Both show a complete lack of reason or rational thought.