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Post by Aba21 on Jul 26, 2003 23:43:54 GMT -5
One question........we know that speaking your mind at Motown got you in hot water. We saw how the first hitmaker for Motown, Mary Wells was treated cause she tried to better herself. Tell me how could you risk your career at that time nothing was guaranteed to speak your mind and make a point. Every artist who challenged BG was buried. David had to know that! Why would he do it?
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Post by ZetaLady6 on Jul 27, 2003 11:51:30 GMT -5
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Post by AnnaKonda on Jul 27, 2003 13:00:30 GMT -5
One question........we know that speaking your mind at Motown got you in hot water. We saw how the first hitmaker for Motown, Mary Wells was treated cause she tried to better herself. Tell me how could you risk your career at that time nothing was guaranteed to speak your mind and make a point. Every artist who challenged BG was buried. David had to know that! Why would he do it? Aba21: Hi, I think he did it because he was hopelessly idealistic, and thought he might be the one who could change things. You know that third dimension thing. At least that might have been one of the factors. Have a nice day |
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Post by Aba21 on Jul 27, 2003 15:19:09 GMT -5
Hi Anna & Zeta,
Getting help wasn't an option back then. there were no programs, rehabs and the like to send folks to when you had a drug problem. Most times the only time you got help was when you overdosed. It makes perfect sense to have tried to find a way to preserve his position pending help because they did have two other leads who could have carried the load of a period of time. But they didn't view the situation in that way back then.
Society didn't know what to make of the drug epedemic back then. They didn't know what to do about Paul's illness then either. Whe knew what sickle cell was? Many of the things we take for granted now were illnesses that were barely understood or not understood at all back then. Paul was unjustly blamed for much of his sickness. Drinking certainly didn't help an all ready very sick man.Today we all know medication and alcohol do not mix.
So we are faced with what we know being applied to what they didn't know. That's why the only option was to get rid of David. I know they were torn between the choices. But when you consider they didn't look at drugs as an illness back then, you see why they reacted the way they did.
Sometimes when you are a genius, as David was to his craft, at the top of his game, as he was at that time, you believe you can do no wrong. Everything he sang went to #1. I find it easy to believe he thought it should be David And the Temps.
There was no internet, orr Entertainment Tonight, MTV or any media outlet like that to let you know on a daily basis what was rumored to be going on with any groups. So when Dennis showed up, we all were surprised. Nobody knew what was happening. I Thought My Whole World Ended was a Temps song until the DJ said it was David Ruffin, and then and only then did the average Joe Fan kow he was gone not before. And because Dennis was so goood right away, I was able to get over the loss of David much better than I would have if Dennis wasn't as good.
So there were many variables to the story that sometimes aren't put out for us to see. I know David tried to make it better for all the group cause he was the only one with his own contract. The rest were under a contract as a group. he was good but no one knew he was that good. Even after he joined Eddie continued to get the leads so you can't tell me they expected him to take them to another level. Timing is everything in this world and David was in the right place at the right time and took advantage of it very well.
And Zeta, I never heard the group called by that name. I, like you believe it was a rumor spread when Diana Ross had the name of her group changed. But again nothing was done without the approval of BG and you know Diana Ross had his n#*s in a vice.
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Post by ZetaLady6 on Jul 27, 2003 15:35:09 GMT -5
I never thought of it that way Aba because I wasn't living back then. I am just the type of person who feels everyone deserves a chance. Yeah at some point, I'm sure all of C5 had their moments when the f$@!#5 up, but I guess drugs was just something they could not compete with. It always seems like something other than the last resort could be done, but I guess the guys were looking out for themselves after a certain point.
I liked that bit about Diana and Berry! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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Post by Aba21 on Jul 27, 2003 15:47:19 GMT -5
I never thought of it that way Aba because I wasn't living back then. I am just the type of person who feels everyone deserves a chance. Yeah at some point, I'm sure all of C5 had their moments when the f$@!#5 up, but I guess drugs was just something they could not compete with. It always seems like something other than the last resort could be done, but I guess the guys were looking out for themselves after a certain point. I liked that bit about Diana and Berry!  Yeah I thought you might like that one. see I love all the guys and I know Otis did some things that were not right but I know Melvin and Melvin wouldn't hurt a fly. And he stayed with Otis for his whole life so Otis couldn't be all bad. I just defend his right to be a Temptation whether he was the best singer or the worst, the best dancer or the worst, none of that matters to me. David was one of twenty Temptations. He was the Number 1 Temptation in my book but still just one of 20. I'm sure if he were around with what we know today he would have got those second chances because there was no one better than him. |
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Post by ZetaLady6 on Jul 27, 2003 15:57:10 GMT -5
Yeah Aba it's real messed up how the group fell apart. I, like you respect Otis very much as a Temptation, I just have a hard time with this "New Classic" stuff. It may be wrong to be biased, but I just hate when people, any people try to remake old classic songs and it sounds bad. Not just the Tempts, but any of these current artists that do it nowadays urk me just as much. I also agree that David was the greatest Tempt and one of many. David wasn't the "group" but was a major asset just as all the guys had a part. He, nor his voice could never be replaced as the rest of c5.
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Post by Aba21 on Jul 27, 2003 16:19:54 GMT -5
Yeah Aba it's real messed up how the group fell apart. I, like you respect Otis very much as a Temptation, I just have a hard time with this "New Classic" stuff. It may be wrong to be biased, but I just hate when people, any people try to remake old classic songs and it sounds bad. Not just the Tempts, but any of these current artists that do it nowadays urk me just as much. I also agree that David was the greatest Tempt and one of many. David wasn't the "group" but was a major asset just as all the guys had a part. He, nor his voice could never be replaced as the rest of c5. What you have said in your paragraph is what I have been feeling and saying on this board since the day I came here. I am not the judge and Jury when it comes to their discretions because I can open my own closet or look in the mirror at my own. I just know that to me this is the greatest group that has ever been assembled and though members have come and gone they still perform. Am I deluded into thinking that what I am seeing is equal to what I know........not hardly. But because for the better part of my life they are one of the constants, I want to see some combination fo them perform. I am sorry for what happened to Bo, Ali, Richard, Glenn, Louis and all the rest. I miss Paul and Melvin, David and Eddie and I refuse to hold these new combinations up their standards cause they can't do anything but fail miserably. But it does not mean they are not good. Not at all. Does it mean they are not allowed to sing the classics. Not at all. For some of us who have seen them all, it brings back memories of a time gone by that was important to the defining of who we are today. As I said in an earleir post, I was friends Melvin for over 25 years and have known Ron since not long after Motown 25. I grew up with Glenn Leonard in DC. So it hurts me everytime someone is let go, or quits or whatever for whatever reason. |
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Post by ZetaLady6 on Jul 27, 2003 16:31:59 GMT -5
For some of us who have seen them all, it brings back memories of a time gone by that was important to the defining of who we are today. That was beautifully said and I do understand where you are coming from. See for me, I don't like them singing the classic stuff because I feel like the other guys are being forgotten about. Especially people who think that the Temptations we have now are the only ones that have ever been. I have never seen the new guys perform, but how do they do the classics? I mean I have heard a rendition of them singing My Girl and other stuff, but do they introduce the song as one of their own, or does Otis say some kind of words for the 4 of them? I don't know Otis or what he feels, but does he do Classics to pay respect to the other guys, or because he knows people won't recognize them otherwise. I am truly considering going to a concert with the new guys because they are supposed to be coming to North Carolina in October. Maybe then I will feel different. I would even rather Otis sing the classics himself with a recording of the original guys than hear somebody else mess it up. Otis is the only one I feel truly deserves the honor of doing that. But he is the one making the money and has to sleep at night so who are we to judge? |
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 27, 2003 17:21:45 GMT -5
One question........we know that speaking your mind at Motown got you in hot water. We saw how the first hitmaker for Motown, Mary Wells was treated cause she tried to better herself. Tell me how could you risk your career at that time nothing was guaranteed to speak your mind and make a point. Every artist who challenged BG was buried. David had to know that! Why would he do it? Because he didn't want to kiss Gordy's butt. Can you blame anyone for trying to better their career? No only yours,but your groupmates too? Maybe his grandmother told him..."If you don't stand up for what you believe in,you'll go for anything". He who takes no risks..accomplishes NOTHING in life. Why did Mahammad Ali say and do the thing that he did and risk his own career? I'm not saying that David was Mahummad,I say that they took the same risk...and spoke up anyway! Could that be a reason that they were concidering having David portray Ali in a play that was being planned at the time? |
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 27, 2003 17:30:50 GMT -5
Hi Anna & Zeta, Getting help wasn't an option back then. there were no programs, rehabs and the like to send folks to when you had a drug problem. Sometimes when you are a genius, as David was to his craft, at the top of his game, as he was at that time, you believe you can do no wrong. Everything he sang went to #1. I find it easy to believe he thought it should be David And the Temps./quote] David first went to treatment in 1967. Sometimes when you voice your opinions and they are not wrong..it just makes some uncomfortable,a picture can be painted to make you appear that you have a big ego ,when all you are trying to do is make conditions better for the group.As the case here. |
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Post by Tess on Jul 27, 2003 17:34:36 GMT -5
From "Deliver us From Temptation" by Tony Turner. page: 229 (at David's funeral) A group of speakers and singers were at the podium among them Berry's sister, Esther Gordy who spoke for the Gordy family. The speech was a history of the Gordy's with David mentioned here and there. BG had helped DR after being signed by the label, BG was a wonderful man, had done this and that, was a starmaker and genious.........  "I was trying not to chuckle because I had remembered a comment of David's: "Tony, that Gordy family makes the Borgias look like the Walton's." Tess |
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 27, 2003 17:48:44 GMT -5
From "Deliver us From Temptation" by Tony Turner. page: 229 (at David's funeral) A group of speakers and singers were at the podium among them Berry's sister, Esther Gordy who spoke for the Gordy family. The speech was a history of the Gordy's with David mentioned here and there. BG had helped DR after being signed by the label, BG was a wonderful man, had done this and that, was a starmaker and genious......... "I was trying not to chuckle because I had remembered a comment of David's: "Tony, that Gordy family makes the Borgias look like the Walton's." Tess Very good,now tell us,why did that part of the book stick out with you?  |
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Post by Aba21 on Jul 27, 2003 18:11:17 GMT -5
Hi Anna & Zeta, Getting help wasn't an option back then. there were no programs, rehabs and the like to send folks to when you had a drug problem. Sometimes when you are a genius, as David was to his craft, at the top of his game, as he was at that time, you believe you can do no wrong. Everything he sang went to #1. I find it easy to believe he thought it should be David And the Temps./quote] David first went to treatment in 1967. Sometimes when you voice your opinions and they are not wrong..it just makes some uncomfortable,a picture can be painted to make you appear that you have a big ego ,when all you are trying to do is make conditions better for the group.As the case here. That's why I don't fault Otis what went down with David. He knew the risks for speaking up right or wrong. Call Otis a wimp if you will but call the rest of em' wimps too for not standing up for David if David was the one they wanted to stay. Otis had only one vote whether he sucked up to BG or not. If When David went into treatment, they told Motown that they could help him, then they should have given him a second chance. I just feel they discarded him when he went for whatever the treatment was in 1967. And there is no question said treatment was not at the level of treatment you can get today! |
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 27, 2003 18:20:06 GMT -5
But there was help. And I'm not so sure that nobody did stand up for David. Reports are that not everyone was in agreement. Just like it was reported that it was is the same way it was reported that it was not.No he said-she said.
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