Motown suit.

[ZeldaFScott]

"Big difference between having health problems and not showing up to shows and rehersals due to the use of drugs - like David did. "

Debbie, the problem we have with David's absenties from shows or rehearsal is simply that they may or may not have been caused by drugs only. There are other voices who said that he didn't show up on purpose to protest the conditions at Motown. My very personal problem with all these accusations against David Ruffin is that most people seemed to be willing to believe what has been written in O's book and showed in the mini series.
This does not mean that I want to absolve DR from any mistakes made. All I want for him is that people start asking questions about the validity of thes allegations. That is not asked too much, I believe.
Why do you claim, for instance, that David Ruffin missed shows and rehearsals because of drugs? Do you know for sure that these were the reasons? Or do you base your conclusion on secondhand information.
This is not meant to put you on the spot, or something like that ... It's just that David had probably other reasons to be a no show ... After all I've read and heard so far, he deserves at least the benefit of a doubt.

[Davidfan]

Debbie said:

Okay Mike. You CLAIM to have so much FIRST HAND information about the Classic 5 - and being around David so much.

Let me ask you - How old were you during that time? I really DOUBT you had the money back then to follow the Group on their Tours and attend so many Shows - never mind the Rehersals - to continue with your head strong statement and belief that David never missed a Show or a Rehersal.

Being the first hand EXPERT of the Group - that you so very much claim to be - Can we expect to go to Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble real soon - and find YOUR Book on the shelves?

I was wondering if you have read Genna's book?

Again this is one of mikes questions that I feel an uncontrolled urge to answer:


I will tell you how old I was when he was preforming with the C5 ... Not born ... Matter of fact I was only 3 when he died ... But ... I still don't see pics of the C4 (sans david) ... Or any actual evidence (4 pieces if you'll recall) to back it up ... So I am still gonna stick to He missed MAYBE rehersel's but I am not falling for that missed concerts stuff ;D

[Aba21]

AnnaKonda said:

"Big difference between having health problems and not showing up to shows and rehersals due to the use of drugs - like David did. "

Debbie, the problem we have with David's absenties from shows or rehearsal is simply that they may or may not have been caused by drugs only. There are other voices who said that he didn't show up on purpose to protest the conditions at Motown. My very personal problem with all these accusations against David Ruffin is that most people seemed to be willing to believe what has been written in O's book and showed in the mini series.
This does not mean that I want to absolve DR from any mistakes made. All I want for him is that people start asking questions about the validity of thes allegations. That is not asked too much, I believe.
Why do you claim, for instance, that David Ruffin missed shows and rehearsals because of drugs? Do you know for sure that these were the reasons? Or do you base your conclusion on secondhand information.
This is not meant to put you on the spot, or something like that ... It's just that David had probably other reasons to be a no show ... After all I've read and heard so far, he deserves at least the benefit of a doubt.

The point is that if you are a professional under contract.....and he was......he has an obligation to fufill that contract that he signed. If he has a problem with the contract he can do one of two things and still be considered a professional in my opinion.........one, he can just honor what he signed and do something when that contract ends like most professionals do...........or he can bring attention to it by having a sort of wildcat strike...miss a show or two to make his point and then go back to work............period. That would be a way to bring attention to the problem with is contract and what was going on at Motown. Anything more than that is going to be a problem. But let me ask you this question which I believe to be the most important of all..............why do you think David was let go? If you don't believe anything you have read regarding his dismissal then I ask why do you think he was let go? He was a great singer. The group was much better with him than without....so if he didn't do anything, why was he let go? And since he was the first one to be replaced.......why did they have Dennis getting ready just in case?If there was no problem, why contact Dennis in the first place. That was not being done with a positive result in mind, that's for sure. Could it be that they were not sure if David would show up or not? What other reason would they be even thinking about replacing such a great singer unless something was wrong? That's the bottom line. If he chose a path that the others did not follow then he should have re-thought his position which was not as strong as he may have thought. To me....this is not a question of who's righ and who's wrong but a question of what happened. For what ever reason, David Ruffin was fired. Why?

[ZeldaFScott]

Aba, theoretically it is possible that David was not fired ... but quit himself because of O's way to deal with problems in the group and because he was sick of the Motown BS. I don't know whether he was really fired or not ....

[Aba21]

Let me make something clear for you............Otis did not fire David........Berry did.........Otis may not have stood up for him but he sure as hell didn't fire David.............he couldn't. His contract was with Berry Gordy......if you don't believe anything you read in his book then don't believe that there was some kind of stupid vote..............there was only one vote that counted back then and his name was Berry Gordy..........Berry could have just as easily put David back in the group, but he didn't.......he did not need Otis' permission to do so.......and trust me.....David was fired.........if you look at the Street Gold video, Dennis says that DAvid came to him and told him they were going to replace him and it was going to be him. What other information do you need to believe he was fired, replaced, forced out whatever...........it was not a positive move is all I'm saying.......

[Ivory Fair]

Or do you base your conclusion on secondhand information.

Yeah, it's not good to judge people on second hand info, is it Anna?

[ZeldaFScott]

"Yeah, it's not good to judge people on second hand info, is it Anna? "


... of course, you don't have all the firsthand info Right?

[Ivory Fair]

And you've never heard me say a bad thing about David, have you?

[Ivory Fair]

Well, I take that back. I did say one time that he had no ass, but that's the truth and I don't have a problem with anyone knowing I said it! ;D

[ZeldaFScott]

I've never said a bad thing about David either.

[MikeNYC]

Aba21 said:

Let me make something clear for you............Otis did not fire David........Berry did.........Otis may not have stood up for him but he sure as hell didn't fire David.............he couldn't. His contract was with Berry Gordy......if you don't believe anything you read in his book then don't believe that there was some kind of stupid vote..............there was only one vote that counted back then and his name was Berry Gordy..........Berry could have just as easily put David back in the group, but he didn't.......he did not need Otis' permission to do so.......and trust me.....David was fired.........if you look at the Street Gold video, Dennis says that DAvid came to him and told him they were going to replace him and it was going to be him. What other information do you need to believe he was fired, replaced, forced out whatever...........it was not a positive move is all I'm saying.......

David said that there was "business differences". I think that was on the same tape.

[MikeNYC]

Ivory said:

So ............... how old were you Mike?

4 times older than you first memory of the group.

[MikeNYC]

Debbie said:

Mike - thanks for starting your post "With All Do Respect" - I will start this next post stating the same "With All Do Respect".

You have to admit - that you have stated - more than once - that you have never attended a Tempts show that David was a "No Show". Also you have asked - more than once - Did anybody attend or have proof that David missed rehersals - without me going back and posting the actual quoted posts that you have made these statements - more than once.

I have no problem saying that I was born in 1954 - which made me the age of around 12-14 when David was let go from the Group. That is why I ask what age you where during that time. In your statements - you make it sound like you are the authority on David and the Group as a whole. Being the age I was during the time David was a Classic 5 - I certainly was not old enough to have the money to attend their concerts - as you claim to be. To make a statement as strong as "David never missed a concert you went too" and your strong belief that he never missed a rehersal. To claim that strong of a statement - it would mean and come across that you had to follow the Group on their tours - and attend rehersals also. That is why I made the statement that "I do not belief you had the money or was at a age to be able to accomplish the claims you have made.

You say that Otis also missed rehersals - maybe even Shows - due to HEALTH PROBLEMS! Melvin should have been included in that statement - when he got shot - and of course we all know that Paul became ill enough to where he also could not attend shows or rehersals. These Guys were human - and it makes sense that these Guys got sick or had health problems during the time they were Tempts. Big difference between having health problems and not showing up to shows and rehersals due to the use of drugs - like David did.

Now you know - as well as I - back in the day - when the Classic 5 was performing there was hardly any publications in regards to these Groups - especially R&B Groups. There were a few Teen Magazines out - like "Teen Beat", etc., - but they all centered around Young White People - not R&B people. So please tell me where you gathered your information - and please post up the articles.

I do admit - that I have not read Tony Turner's book.

But I have read Genna's book - and in fact - I have talked to her on the phone numerous times. You have to admit that Genna is quite a authority on David - not knocking Genna at all - she showed David in a worse light than Otis did.

Also - I do know somebody who attended a concert after David was let go from the Group - and they saw him walk along down the side of the theater - approaching the stage - and did make his way on to the stage.

I am not asking you to show me proof of your money situation or bank statements at the time - just trying to make the point that you had the same situation as I - that you were young enough at that time - to not have the money required to accomplish what you have claimed to have accomplished.

Please tell me where you are getting the information to back up all the statements you have made.

On a lighter note - being New York Born - I also have been to Freedlomland And Palasades Park - which I so much enjoyed.

How could you afford to go to see the Tempts at Palasades& Freedomland,you were much too young?
Debbie,you need to go back,if you gonna question me about my post,otherwise you are at a disadvantage. You're playing the "Soul Train scramble board with my words. Having fun?
You also state that back in the day there were no publications that covered R&B. Says who? Ever heard of Jet? Ebony?....How about Tan? Soul? Ever read any of those? They didn't even take away form my candy budget! I could "squeeze $.50cents for those. How about you? I was old enough to know that the Jackson 5 didn't start R&B publications.

[MikeNYC]

Debbie said:

Mike - thanks for starting your post "With All Do Respect" - I will start this next post stating the same "With All Do Respect".

You have to admit - that you have stated - more than once - that you have never attended a Tempts show that David was a "No Show". Also you have asked - more than once - Did anybody attend or have proof that David missed rehersals - without me going back and posting the actual quoted posts that you have made these statements - more than once.

I have no problem saying that I was born in 1954 - which made me the age of around 12-14 when David was let go from the Group. That is why I ask what age you where during that time. In your statements - you make it sound like you are the authority on David and the Group as a whole. Being the age I was during the time David was a Classic 5 - I certainly was not old enough to have the money to attend their concerts - as you claim to be. To make a statement as strong as "David never missed a concert you went too" and your strong belief that he never missed a rehersal. To claim that strong of a statement - it would mean and come across that you had to follow the Group on their tours - and attend rehersals also. That is why I made the statement that "I do not belief you had the money or was at a age to be able to accomplish the claims you have made.

You say that Otis also missed rehersals - maybe even Shows - due to HEALTH PROBLEMS! Melvin should have been included in that statement - when he got shot - and of course we all know that Paul became ill enough to where he also could not attend shows or rehersals. These Guys were human - and it makes sense that these Guys got sick or had health problems during the time they were Tempts. Big difference between having health problems and not showing up to shows and rehersals due to the use of drugs - like David did.

Now you know - as well as I - back in the day - when the Classic 5 was performing there was hardly any publications in regards to these Groups - especially R&B Groups. There were a few Teen Magazines out - like "Teen Beat", etc., - but they all centered around Young White People - not R&B people. So please tell me where you gathered your information - and please post up the articles.

I do admit - that I have not read Tony Turner's book.

But I have read Genna's book - and in fact - I have talked to her on the phone numerous times. You have to admit that Genna is quite a authority on David - not knocking Genna at all - she showed David in a worse light than Otis did.

Also - I do know somebody who attended a concert after David was let go from the Group - and they saw him walk along down the side of the theater - approaching the stage - and did make his way on to the stage.

I am not asking you to show me proof of your money situation or bank statements at the time - just trying to make the point that you had the same situation as I - that you were young enough at that time - to not have the money required to accomplish what you have claimed to have accomplished.

Please tell me where you are getting the information to back up all the statements you have made.

On a lighter note - being New York Born - I also have been to Freedlomland And Palasades Park - which I so much enjoyed.

Debbie,are you saying that David never missed a show because had health problems? He was the only one who did drugs in the group? Where do you get THIS information from?

[MikeNYC]

Ivory said:

And you've never heard me say a bad thing about David, have you?

With all due respect,you seem to have no problem calling the man a "crackhead". You never said that about Mary -Kate Olsen. She looked like David.