Post by Beej on May 3, 2005 8:51:15 GMT -5
"Who are you to legislate or to call a state wrong?"
Well, let's see...
I'm an intelligent, well-rounded, considerate, introspective, rational individual who has the ability to grasp complex concepts and form well-reasoned, logical arguments to support my views. Beyond that, I'm a 30-something who's done quite a bit of living in a relatively short period of time and played a significant role in the upbringing of two nieces. I trust that's more than adequate to form sensible opinions about acceptable adult/child relationships for the purposes of a message board discussion. LOL.
Humor me, Cadeho...
Do you remember what it was like being fourteen? Do you think your capacity to understand the world around you was anywhere near what it is today? Are you suggesting most fourteen-year-olds have the sense of responsibility, foresight and emotional stability necessary to handle adult situations? Do you really think kids that age know enough about life, themselves and the complexities of adulthood to consider the long-term consequences of their actions?
The answer is NO.
I know it can sometimes seem like kids grow up faster today than in years past...that they're more savvy than we were at their age...but it's not accurate. Yeah, they have cell phones and other gadgets we never had; sure, they sometimes dress and talk like adults, but they're no more circumspect than we were as kids. Even the bright ones still say and do stupid things without thinking. Their decision-making abilities and cognitive reasoning skills are no match for a middle-aged adult of even just average intelligence.
It's not even a matter of cultural, ethnic or religious differences; it's pure physiology. The areas of the brain that handle the types of complex abstract reasoning and emotional skills I alluded to aren't even fully developed until we're well into our 20s.
I can say from personal experience that my ability to learn and understand difficut concepts -- and deal with adversity in a rational, controlled manner -- has intensified dramatically in the ten years since I graduated college. It's as though someone flipped a switch and everything suddenly became obvious.
Teens simply haven't lived long enough to view situations through a similar perspective...to see "the big picture." Their brains are wired to focus on the NOW...or, at best, the 10 minutes from now.
There's a reason why only three states have an age of consent that low. And, without even weeding through the language of the respective state constitutions, I can tell you with absolute certainty that those ages carry with them special circumstances. In other words, the perpetrator must be within a certain age parameter, as well, to avoid prosecution.
Nowhere in this country is it legal for a thirty- or forty-year-old adult to have sex with a fourteen-year-old kid. It's that simple...and, again, it's that way for a reason. It's got nothing to do with "looking" older, "acting" older or being "mature for one's age." Adolescents are not biologically equipped to view the world from an adult perspective...period.
"I would guess you'd go preaching to other countries such as Mexico, Canada, and South Korea because of how you feel? That is why people hate us!"
I disagree -- strongly -- with the "why people hate us" conclusion, but that's not the focus of this discussion. You assume a lot. I have no desire to affect change on the way people in other countries live their lives...providing, of course, it is a matter of free choice. If the people of, say, Canada were to freely elect and support a government which permits 10-year-olds to wed goats, that's none my business. I don't live there. What happens in America IS my business...just as what happens in my neighborhood and in my state. I have a vested interest in doing what I can to shape the policies of the place I live...the place I'll someday raise my kids...to see to it that adults who prey on children are treated in the harshest manner possible under our Constitution. You may call it "preaching"...I call it being a responsible citizen. Protecting kids from predators is EVERYBODY'S business.
"I thought Vili Fualaau was a 14 year old sixth grader."
Various articles I've read on the background of the case stated that she became pregnant with the first child when he was thirteen. A CourtTV piece mentioned that their relationship turned "sexual" when he was twelve. Additionally -- something not many people seem to know -- she admitted to first taking a heightened "interest" in him when he was in second grade. You're free to draw your own conclusions.
"Who cares what skills he has or doesn't now, or if he needs Dr. Phil?"
Considering there are now children involved, his ability to support a family and his (and Mary Kay's) psychological and emotional fitness are quite relevant. The reason I initially mentioned his lack of aptitude and mental stability was to contradict the notion that he seems no worse for wear after having been victimized. It's ludicrous. Absolutely, he's got issues. Yes, he is presently incapable of supporting a family. No, the job offers will not be rolling Mary Kay's way anytime soon, either. These are the kinds of things one must consider beyond the abuser/victim discussion.
"They're both adults now so let them live. She loves him, they have 2 kids, she's out of jail... She just happened to fall in love with an underaged boy. How you could judge the maturity of some young folks?"
I don't even know where to begin with that series of statements, Cadeho. There's just no nice way for me to adequately respond to those four sentences and still be cordial.
"They aren't all the same. This one probably wasn't too mature, but maybe some of the other similar cases you haven't heard were."
Am I reading this right? Are you implying that, in some cases, it might be understandable for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a 12 to 14-year-old...providing the child displays an outward level of maturity sufficiently beyond his/her peers? Please, tell me you were going somewhere else with that thought.
As for those people who believe this relationship is built on anything even remotely resembling LOVE, please place your head in the oven at your earliest convenience and turn the knob to high...preferably before you breed and have a chance to pass on your warped sense of values to another generation.
I can't believe some of the stuff I've read in these posts and elsewhere...people actually appear to be establishing degrees of molestation, suggesting that cases where the perpetrator "really seems to care" about the victim or where the victim "has feelings" for the abuser aren't nearly as bad as when predators arbitrarily or habitually attack out of selfish desire.
That's essentially establishing a sliding scale of abuse, where some forms of molestation are deemed more acceptable than others. That's not the path we should be travelling. It's akin to saying, "it's okay to molest a child if the child enjoys it or falls in love with the molester." No one in his right mind would argue that position before a jury, but that's precisely what we're dealing with here.
There's nothing positive or constructive about this relationship. It was built on a series of crimes, lies, abuse and mental illness...not love.
Hey, at least Florida's moving in the right direction. Mandatory life sentences are on the way...
Well, let's see...
I'm an intelligent, well-rounded, considerate, introspective, rational individual who has the ability to grasp complex concepts and form well-reasoned, logical arguments to support my views. Beyond that, I'm a 30-something who's done quite a bit of living in a relatively short period of time and played a significant role in the upbringing of two nieces. I trust that's more than adequate to form sensible opinions about acceptable adult/child relationships for the purposes of a message board discussion. LOL.
Humor me, Cadeho...
Do you remember what it was like being fourteen? Do you think your capacity to understand the world around you was anywhere near what it is today? Are you suggesting most fourteen-year-olds have the sense of responsibility, foresight and emotional stability necessary to handle adult situations? Do you really think kids that age know enough about life, themselves and the complexities of adulthood to consider the long-term consequences of their actions?
The answer is NO.
I know it can sometimes seem like kids grow up faster today than in years past...that they're more savvy than we were at their age...but it's not accurate. Yeah, they have cell phones and other gadgets we never had; sure, they sometimes dress and talk like adults, but they're no more circumspect than we were as kids. Even the bright ones still say and do stupid things without thinking. Their decision-making abilities and cognitive reasoning skills are no match for a middle-aged adult of even just average intelligence.
It's not even a matter of cultural, ethnic or religious differences; it's pure physiology. The areas of the brain that handle the types of complex abstract reasoning and emotional skills I alluded to aren't even fully developed until we're well into our 20s.
I can say from personal experience that my ability to learn and understand difficut concepts -- and deal with adversity in a rational, controlled manner -- has intensified dramatically in the ten years since I graduated college. It's as though someone flipped a switch and everything suddenly became obvious.
Teens simply haven't lived long enough to view situations through a similar perspective...to see "the big picture." Their brains are wired to focus on the NOW...or, at best, the 10 minutes from now.
There's a reason why only three states have an age of consent that low. And, without even weeding through the language of the respective state constitutions, I can tell you with absolute certainty that those ages carry with them special circumstances. In other words, the perpetrator must be within a certain age parameter, as well, to avoid prosecution.
Nowhere in this country is it legal for a thirty- or forty-year-old adult to have sex with a fourteen-year-old kid. It's that simple...and, again, it's that way for a reason. It's got nothing to do with "looking" older, "acting" older or being "mature for one's age." Adolescents are not biologically equipped to view the world from an adult perspective...period.
"I would guess you'd go preaching to other countries such as Mexico, Canada, and South Korea because of how you feel? That is why people hate us!"
I disagree -- strongly -- with the "why people hate us" conclusion, but that's not the focus of this discussion. You assume a lot. I have no desire to affect change on the way people in other countries live their lives...providing, of course, it is a matter of free choice. If the people of, say, Canada were to freely elect and support a government which permits 10-year-olds to wed goats, that's none my business. I don't live there. What happens in America IS my business...just as what happens in my neighborhood and in my state. I have a vested interest in doing what I can to shape the policies of the place I live...the place I'll someday raise my kids...to see to it that adults who prey on children are treated in the harshest manner possible under our Constitution. You may call it "preaching"...I call it being a responsible citizen. Protecting kids from predators is EVERYBODY'S business.
"I thought Vili Fualaau was a 14 year old sixth grader."
Various articles I've read on the background of the case stated that she became pregnant with the first child when he was thirteen. A CourtTV piece mentioned that their relationship turned "sexual" when he was twelve. Additionally -- something not many people seem to know -- she admitted to first taking a heightened "interest" in him when he was in second grade. You're free to draw your own conclusions.
"Who cares what skills he has or doesn't now, or if he needs Dr. Phil?"
Considering there are now children involved, his ability to support a family and his (and Mary Kay's) psychological and emotional fitness are quite relevant. The reason I initially mentioned his lack of aptitude and mental stability was to contradict the notion that he seems no worse for wear after having been victimized. It's ludicrous. Absolutely, he's got issues. Yes, he is presently incapable of supporting a family. No, the job offers will not be rolling Mary Kay's way anytime soon, either. These are the kinds of things one must consider beyond the abuser/victim discussion.
"They're both adults now so let them live. She loves him, they have 2 kids, she's out of jail... She just happened to fall in love with an underaged boy. How you could judge the maturity of some young folks?"
I don't even know where to begin with that series of statements, Cadeho. There's just no nice way for me to adequately respond to those four sentences and still be cordial.
"They aren't all the same. This one probably wasn't too mature, but maybe some of the other similar cases you haven't heard were."
Am I reading this right? Are you implying that, in some cases, it might be understandable for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a 12 to 14-year-old...providing the child displays an outward level of maturity sufficiently beyond his/her peers? Please, tell me you were going somewhere else with that thought.
As for those people who believe this relationship is built on anything even remotely resembling LOVE, please place your head in the oven at your earliest convenience and turn the knob to high...preferably before you breed and have a chance to pass on your warped sense of values to another generation.
I can't believe some of the stuff I've read in these posts and elsewhere...people actually appear to be establishing degrees of molestation, suggesting that cases where the perpetrator "really seems to care" about the victim or where the victim "has feelings" for the abuser aren't nearly as bad as when predators arbitrarily or habitually attack out of selfish desire.
That's essentially establishing a sliding scale of abuse, where some forms of molestation are deemed more acceptable than others. That's not the path we should be travelling. It's akin to saying, "it's okay to molest a child if the child enjoys it or falls in love with the molester." No one in his right mind would argue that position before a jury, but that's precisely what we're dealing with here.
There's nothing positive or constructive about this relationship. It was built on a series of crimes, lies, abuse and mental illness...not love.
Hey, at least Florida's moving in the right direction. Mandatory life sentences are on the way...
