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Post by janebse on Jul 9, 2003 17:25:19 GMT -5
A very interesting question, Soulstirrer. I don't know the answer. I've heard people expound on the subject, but they don't know the answer either.
And those who protest they aren't interested in stars are probably the most interested. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."
What are we looking for in these "stars"?
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 9, 2003 17:26:49 GMT -5
And I think we've got professional sports backwards, I don't pay to see them perform for me, I pay to see play the game.
The game is about the players, if I don't like what is going on, I don't have to see them play.
It's the same games people play every day, it's only at the highest level. That's the difference. That doesn't mean that we treat them any different than anyone else who has a job. And it is a job.
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 9, 2003 17:33:24 GMT -5
A very interesting question, Soulstirrer. I don't know the answer. I've heard people expound on the subject, but they don't know the answer either. And those who protest they aren't interested in stars are probably the most interested. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." What are we looking for in these "stars"? We want to share and bond. That's a very important part of a society. We want to know every aspect and immerse ourselves in it. We want to feel what they are feeling, know what they know. When this is denied or our bond is broken because they do something we can't relate to, we turn on them. After all, sharing is a big part in a relationship. From that, bonding comes. |
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Post by janebse on Jul 9, 2003 17:37:09 GMT -5
I think you hit the point with the sports arena...at the highest level.
I once read a book about tennis titled WORLD CLASS. It was about tennis when Wimbledon and the other big tournaments became open to pros and amateurs. But for me it was also about the highest level of sports---the world class athletes---and the immense difference in the way they played and the way home town talent played.
And I thought of the way they trained, the amount of time they spent perfecting each little skill.
Of course, we've got games with teams with athletes who compete against each other(which team gets the best score) and we've got individual athletes who compete against each other and then we've got individual athletes (who could play on a team sometimes) who compete against the course (golf) or a perfect score (bowling).
Now, SS, do you like a game so much you don't care what level you're watching it at, or do you also find yourself interested in someone who has mastered the game at an unbelievable level?
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 9, 2003 18:23:47 GMT -5
Well, I have been known to watch rec-league baseball and pro-am summer basketball. It isn't at the levels of pro or college, but they still play the game and there are aspects that I can relate to, little things that you might remember when you "tried" to play. It doesn't have to always be Lakers/Spurs, Cowboys/ Redskins, Yankees/Red Sox. Sometimes, watching Joe's Barber Shop vs. Alvin's Liquor Store has its moments. But consistently, pro sports is a better view.
I never look at someone mastering a sport, because you can be humbled easily. You can't make every shot, or shoot birdies on every hole. And you've seen the best, humbled. How they react to and perform under adversity can be compelling.
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Post by janebse on Jul 9, 2003 19:17:48 GMT -5
Ah, yes, the humbling experience. No one will ever forget V.J. Singh's record 63 for a U.S. Open this year made even more memorable by the next day. In fact, every one likes to mention how he couldn't even hit the ball straight the next day. The first day he could do no wrong, the next day no right. So even the best have their bad days.
But there is something special about watching the very best doing something very difficult and making it look so easy.
I think people must be using different approaches and expectations for different kinds of games because watching friends and relatives play is very exciting. And a Little League game can be so thrilling. But we don't think of them as "stars."
I remember going to a convention which several hundred thousand attended. We got up at 4:00 a.m. to wait in line to get our tickets for the keynote address to be made by this one person. Well, one of our group was a bit reluctant to get up that early. We were trying to tell him how important this person was and how the rest of us were eager to hear what he had to say. This other person was not convinced. Finally I turned to him and said, "He's the richest man in the world." And then the reluctant person's eyes glittered, and he was willing to get up early.
What makes a person a star?
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 9, 2003 20:27:26 GMT -5
Ah, yes, the humbling experience. No one will ever forget V.J. Singh's record 63 for a U.S. Open this year made even more memorable by the next day. In fact, every one likes to mention how he couldn't even hit the ball straight the next day. The first day he could do no wrong, the next day no right. So even the best have their bad days. But there is something special about watching the very best doing something very difficult and making it look so easy. I think people must be using different approaches and expectations for different kinds of games because watching friends and relatives play is very exciting. And a Little League game can be so thrilling. But we don't think of them as "stars." I remember going to a convention which several hundred thousand attended. We got up at 4:00 a.m. to wait in line to get our tickets for the keynote address to be made by this one person. Well, one of our group was a bit reluctant to get up that early. We were trying to tell him how important this person was and how the rest of us were eager to hear what he had to say. This other person was not convinced. Finally I turned to him and said, "He's the richest man in the world." And then the reluctant person's eyes glittered, and he was willing to get up early. What makes a person a star? Well, the USGA isn't doing its job if they don't trick up a US Open course. You better not have many people scoring in red. And you will pay if you score well in one round, sooner or later. Even if someone scores 50 points or hits three home runs, that's not a easy thing. When the best maintains their excellence for a given period, that is something to behold. Actually, you can think of them as "stars". If a kid is pitching, in a LL game, and is mowing down the opposition, you can think of him as a star. Suppose your neighborhood is playing another neighborhood in a football and you go down the street to get the best athletes on the block. You think of those athletes as "stars". The accomplishment should make one a star. But I think it's the perception of talent, charisma, etc... that makes one a star. There are people who don't accomplish much who are considered stars, while there are those who are accomplished who are stars. |
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Post by Aba21 on Jul 9, 2003 20:59:13 GMT -5
Just thought I'd throw in that I like this conversation between SS and Jane. In Kobe's case he has gone out of his way to be a good family man. I will wait until the results are in to comment there. But from where I see it I have a problem when shoes, clothes and jail time are more impotant than family and education. I have seen guys who have completed college got their masters and come home to indifference from their peers to such an extent that they are percieved as smart SOBs like there's something wrong with being smart. Yet they can say they been in jail and they are cheered as some kind of freakin' hero on the block and wear it like a badge of honor or something. It's a strange world we live in sometimes.
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 10, 2003 1:11:30 GMT -5
Just thought I'd throw in that I like this conversation between SS and Jane. In Kobe's case he has gone out of his way to be a good family man. I will wait until the results are in to comment there. But from where I see it I have a problem when shoes, clothes and jail time are more impotant than family and education. I have seen guys who have completed college got their masters and come home to indifference from their peers to such an extent that they are percieved as smart SOBs like there's something wrong with being smart. Yet they can say they been in jail and they are cheered as some kind of freakin' hero on the block and wear it like a badge of honor or something. It's a strange world we live in sometimes. You are so right ABA. It's almost like some people say: I can't be as smart as you. You're making me look bad because you're doing something, all of the right things that I can't or haven't done. I look like a fool next to you, so you have no cred with me. You don't see stuff the way I see it, you think you're better than me, no matter what you say. Then with their "heroes", it's: You know what it's about, they're trying to keep you down like me. You ain't no better than I am, that's real to me. You know where you come from and it's no shame in it. You ain't playin' the game the way they want you to, eighteen months in jail ain't broke your heart. You took it and survived, we together on this. Your cred is platinum. Today, I was reading an article in an old issue of National Geographic. It was one of a set of stories about immigration to America, who's coming, what are they doing here once they come. The author was trying to obtain a feel of how immigrant teens felt and the like. One girl from Russia didn't consider herself as white, even though she had the stereotypical Russian complexion. She thought that being white or "acting white" meant that you were smart, got good grades, parents were involved, like in the PTA, etc. Another kid(from Poland, I think) said that you have to "act white", when trying to get a job. These kids didn't want to associate themselves with being white at all, because it was "uncool". One American kid felt that he didn't have to apologize for being white. On the surface, it seemed to be an ethnic thing. But I thought it spoke to how being cool is so highly prized, that it transcends everything. Race, ethnicity, success, accomplishment. And it is cool, to have the street cred, because it is easier to relate, so a lot of people believe. Kobe can speak several languages, not been in much trouble(until this), and is rich and successful. Yet this doesn't earn him the respect he should have. |
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 10, 2003 1:13:32 GMT -5
Are we on topic, cause I got two different threads going and I'm SOOOOOOO confused!!!  What part of the message board is this? |
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Post by Ivory Fair on Jul 10, 2003 1:19:39 GMT -5
LOL! I thought you were lost SS 'cause I've never seen you here before!
This is the part of the board where we ramble and ramble and ramble............. as opposed to the OTHER parts of the board where we ramble and ramble.........
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 10, 2003 1:37:29 GMT -5
LOL! I thought you were lost SS 'cause I've never seen you here before! This is the part of the board where we ramble and ramble and ramble............. as opposed to the OTHER parts of the board where we ramble and ramble......... You mean like: Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech Ramblin' rose, smell my toes I'm a ramblin' man, a gamblin' man. That's the ramblin' ya talkin' about... Ok, I'll leave.( Isn't there a Louis Price thread I can join?) |
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Post by janebse on Jul 10, 2003 9:01:42 GMT -5
I don't think we're on topic, but I don't think we're off topic either. I think we are slithering sideways.
ABA inserted a thought that I had been thinking about in relationship to Kobe and stardom. It's on the topic and also a shoot off the topic. And that's the thought that sometimes people want to be thought of as stars and think they have to act in weird ways to achieve stardom.
Look at the press and its remarks concerning David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Pete Sampras. The press says they are B O R I N G! And they say it in a way that infers these athletes are doing nothing to increase public interest in the sport. Pete Sampras doesn't throw his racket down and have a temper tantrum. So he's boring.
Now, if the above athletes needed ego boosts they might very well do all of these things we deplore to achieve "stardom." Somehow I think the above have enough self-confidence not to care if they are regarded as boring.
But many people are not as confident with themselves and seek ego enhancement by public adoration. As ABA suggested, they go out and do all sorts of "weird" things thinking that will make them accepted as "stars."
Why else would Sean Penn "slap a photographer"?
So I had been thinking maybe Kobe thinks this is how he has to act to be a "star"? Now, I don't mean consciously. Just a sort of unconscious thought that he has to do these sorts of things to be recognized as a great star. Of course, it's ridiculous but since when did people start acting sensibly?
SS,
I've been thinking about the million Little League games I've watched. Now, none of my relatives have in any way been stars. But I've never thought of the better plays as stars, just good players, for the simple reason that at that age we don't need "star" mentality, just good players playing a team sport, or good kids playing a game they love. And if someone does exceptionally well, I've always thought, "They had a good game." Nothing more, nothing less. And that's what I tell them. Of course, it's what I tell them whether they won or lost.
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Post by SoulStirrer on Jul 10, 2003 9:29:52 GMT -5
But on the other hand, Little League has their "All Star" games and "All Star" teams.
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Post by MikeNYC on Jul 10, 2003 13:19:36 GMT -5
Sometimes we find ourselves in situtations that we have no control over. Especially stars,who the last time I checked, are just as human as we are. These days,the media intrudes on people's privite lives more than they should. Hiding in bushes,looking thru trash cans. Why ? They make headline news when someone famous is accused of doing wrong. But when the truth comes out.....little to nothing is said. From all I hear,Kobe was not a wild person. He had his head on straight. That is why I will not say anything until I hear what Kobe has to say,just like Jordan thru his scandals. The media has no respect for the priviate lives of these "stars".
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