Article re: Paul's death

[kalisa2]

crella25 said:

Yes, Kalista2, just as Sly Stones and Jimi Hendrix's drug use was known. I read Soul, Tan, Right On Ebony & Jet and a couple of other small publications. I remember his death being a shock, the drinking thing was already out. We certainly didn't have the kind of access we have now, but we were not in Occupied China. Our "Stars" were important to us, it was a new era as far as the black community was concerned, we kept up with the folk out there in the limelight as best we could. I don't remember reading a publication blaming his death on the drinking, but I know I heard about the drinking way before he stopped singing. I wish I could find those old articles about this group. Considering their place at the time, of course there would be news about them, some of it released from the PR at Motown, and some from those who wanted to know but couldn't or wouldn't go through Motown. Maybe that's the only way to cool this "hot topic" down.

Thanks, Crella! . So there is an answer to both questions, now we can focus on why it was worse for Otis to talk about it than anybody else who had already let it out to the general public, including Eddie in the lead article here. Otis was't revealing never-before-known 'family secrets', merely putting the information into the context of "what happened" to the Classic 5. *IMO.

Me too glad he wrote the book . I don't feel it is our place to say "how" someone should write a book. I'm just glad we have SOME basis for information inside the group, one man's perspective. As Otis said, Berry Gordy told him "Nobody wants to read a "nice" book...make it a GOOD book". Since we're still talking about it, he must've done that job, whether we like what he said or how he said it, or not .

[Aba21]

Not only that Crella, but to continuosly say that Otis put the bad light on these people is just too far fetched for me. I had heard about David and Paul's probelms in DC from DJs on Wol/WOOK and Ebony and Jet magazines. The Temptations were the talk of my neighborhood and all over town. When you went to the record store downtown people were talking about the rumors of this rumors of that. Call it gossip but there was talk. Of course you didn't know if they were true or not but you heard it. Just like you don't know if all were are seeing and talking about now is true. But it was out there.

And to say anybody around here is talking about Paul, Eddie or David in a negative way is also not correct. THese men had problems, all of them,Otis included. To talk about one without talking about the other is not right. I said over and over if you have something to add to the mix about Otis put it out here for us to discuss. But if all there is about Otis is bad business decisions, a book and a movie he had no control over.....we're just wasting time, spinning wheels. Why can't we discuss the so called faults of these men if we want to and not have it be construed as being negative?And if we can't talk about Paul Eddie and David, then why should we discuss Otis? And why is it one person's take on an article any less valid than another? This is what I don't get.

And Elvis, Jimi, Paul and the rest aren't tragic stories? Are you kidding me? What were they then? Hell, Biography called every single one of them Tragic, except Paul and probably not him cause they didn't do one on him. But are you saying a man who allegedly took his own life is not a tragic story?

And once again, if you go back to Otis being the main character in this story, then Melvin Franklin had to be the co-star. He can't be absolved of all cupabilty just because he was a nice man. But that seems to be the case. This story is no the sole fault of one man no matter how many ways you twist this story. Otis is just not that deceiving a person.

[MikeNYC]

kalisa2 said:

I don't know and I DON'T CARE who knew about it before Paul's death. I haven't asked and no-one has answered about before Paul's death.

We have (at least) two who knew shortly AFTER Paul's death, before Otis's book, whether they read this exact article or not...the information was out there to the public by some means or other. I'm really tired of the twisting back and forth on this. Either you're calling Aba21 and McRib's Mom liars, or you need to admit that the information was out there. Eddie put it out there for publication. By either direct or indirect quotes. "Other friends" also put it out there, by indirect quotes.

It matters that this was not known BEFORE Paul died. There was no nationally publicated story on Paul's alledged problems. Neither Aba,nor McRibs's mom ever said that they knew about this while Paul was alive. The alledged problem wasn't reported until Paul died. Even then,the local story that you posted was just that...local. None of them said that they remember Eddie's "interview". So that takes care of that misleading theory that you have. No need to call anyone a liar,especially ME ! You can read into it what you want to,but don't misrepresent the facts and try to read things that are not there. Paul's death didn't get the coverage that David's did,or Eddie's for that matter.
Your reaching in your attempts to try to attach Eddie to this. I'm having fun watching you TRY,I must admit. :laughing

[MikeNYC]

crella25 said:

Yes, Kalista2, just as Sly Stones and Jimi Hendrix's drug use was known. I read Soul, Tan, Right On Ebony & Jet and a couple of other small publications. I remember his death being a shock, the drinking thing was already out. We certainly didn't have the kind of access we have now, but we were not in Occupied China. Our "Stars" were important to us, it was a new era as far as the black community was concerned, we kept up with the folk out there in the limelight as best we could. I don't remember reading a publication blaming his death on the drinking, but I know I heard about the drinking way before he stopped singing. I wish I could find those old articles about this group. Considering their place at the time, of course there would be news about them, some of it released from the PR at Motown, and some from those who wanted to know but couldn't or wouldn't go through Motown. Maybe that's the only way to cool this "hot topic" down.

Crella,Right On was not in publication when Paul was alive as far as hearing about the drinking before Paul died,can you honestly say that you read a story on Paul's alledged problems while he was alive? I mean being that you stated that you didn't remember Paul's death being blamed on drinking? The report was Paul was hospitalized due to "exaustion" as was reported while he was alive? Think about it. That's what was reported during his existance EXAUSTION ! You also say you read Soul,if you did then you read Paul's interview,and remember the reports of his comback,care to share your SOUL-READING memories? ;D

[kalisa2]

MikeNYC said:

It matters that this was not known BEFORE Paul died. There was no nationally publicated story on Paul's alledged problems. Neither Aba,nor McRibs's mom ever said that they knew about this while Paul was alive. The alledged problem wasn't reported until Paul died. Even then,the local story that you posted was just that...local. None of them said that they remember Eddie's "interview". So that takes care of that misleading theory that you have. No need to call anyone a liar,especially ME ! You can read into it what you want to,but don't misrepresent the facts and try to read things that are not there. Paul's death didn't get the coverage that David's did,or Eddie's for that matter.
Your reaching in your attempts to try to attach Eddie to this. I'm having fun watching you TRY,I must admit.

Mike...you have NOT ONCE explained WHY it is important (TO YOU only) it was reported BEFORE Paul died?

[crella25]

I don't have a clue when Right On came on the market, I do know it was the 70's. I said it was ONE of the publications I use to read. My surprise was that O said he was the groups LEADER

O was no angel, far from it in my eyes, but neither was Paul (as much as I love me some Paul Williams), Eddie, David, Melvin or Dennis. They were and are human beings, flesh and blood. Mistakes are part of life, love accepts the good with the bad. It accepts the harsh mistakes, along with all the perfect and wonderful decisions too. We cannot change anything for these men posthumously, that they themselves did when alive. Well, I should say we don't have the power to change aynthing. I understand trying to kill a rumor, but we can't change facts.

[kalisa2]

Your reaching in your attempts to try to attach Eddie to this. I'm having fun watching you TRY,I must admit.

*I* am not trying to attach Eddie to anything. Eddie attached himself, by his own words...to a reporter...for publication.

[Aba21]

Crella, you make some good points in that there seems to be some mission to correct the reputations of some men long gone. I don't think that can be done. What is written is written. What's done is done. It still doesn't cause real fans to lose any respect for them. No one around here wants to besmerch the reputations of any of these men. I believe there are many different versions of the same story and one person's belief may differ from another but that doesn't make it negative.....I know I have the greatest love and respect for them all and can discuss the good and the bad with no effect on my feelings for them otr their work at all....................It just amazes me that so many different opinions can come from one newspaper article. Everybody reads something different from it...........

[kalisa2]

testing to see if this thread locked up .

Good points, Crella and Aba. My view of the Temptations is in no way altered by what they did in their personal lives...they've given me music and joy throughout my life, and that is a fine testament to anybody who can do that for so many people they never knew.

[Coey]

I'm in total agreement with ya k2

[Aba21]

Well I sometimes get the feeling that some want to make them bigger than what they were or somehow above and beyond reproach. That ain't gonna happen cause they were human beings first.........

[kalisa2]

Aba21 said:

Well I sometimes get the feeling that some want to make them bigger than what they were or somehow above and beyond reproach. That ain't gonna happen cause they were human beings first.........

Nope, none of them were above reproach, and none of them had horns, tails and hooves (that we know of )... just human, ALL of them. To demonize the ONE that we've gotten the most information from is unfair, IMO. To hold that one to a different standard is unfair. I like fair .

[JoAnne]

Temptress said:

I really don't know what the real story is with Paul. But if Eddie couldn't help Paul surely Otis couldn't.........I think Eddie helped Paul as much as he could. I believe that Paul was depressed...... I am torn about what happen with him. You can help people but *it is up to them to help themselves*. As far as Otis is concerned. He had problems too......In the book he admitted to being High on stage once... like that was the only time .......come on O ;D.

Yea,O did admit getting high only once I just finished reading Jacks Ashford's book. He say's Quote: "In the Temptations' suite, we were listening to music and a lot of pot smoking was taking place!" Now he didn't call any names so I can only assume O was in included. And during shows, O missed steps and sang off key quite often! Do that mean he was DRUNK, HIGH, or what? Why would he go into detail of why Paul and David left the group and not say why Eddie left?

[JoAnne]

kalisa2 said:

Nope, none of them were above reproach, and none of them had horns, tails and hooves (that we know of )... just human, ALL of them. To demonize the ONE that we've gotten the most information from is unfair, IMO. To hold that one to a different standard is unfair. I like fair .

:clapping: :clapping: :yourock: :yourock:

[MikeNYC]

crella25 said:

I don't have a clue when Right On came on the market, I do know it was the 70's. I said it was ONE of the publications I use to read. My surprise was that O said he was the groups LEADER

O was no angel, far from it in my eyes, but neither was Paul (as much as I love me some Paul Williams), Eddie, David, Melvin or Dennis. They were and are human beings, flesh and blood. Mistakes are part of life, love accepts the good with the bad. It accepts the harsh mistakes, along with all the perfect and wonderful decisions too. We cannot change anything for these men posthumously, that they themselves did when alive. Well, I should say we don't have the power to change aynthing. I understand trying to kill a rumor, but we can't change facts.

What are the facts?
First of all the facts are that this story that was posted was not a national story. The news had a little article on Paul's death. When the man was alive and they did an Ebony,or Jet,or Soul interview ...Paul's "problem was addressed as "EXAUSTION"! Never alcohol. That was never written about UNTIL Paul died.
Now ,I never said any were angels,but seems like their un-angel-like "faults" are the attention getters of this board ,while when Otis' are brought up they find EXCUSES. There's no way in hell anybody's gonna tell me that it was important to claim how many bottles that Paul drank,if any. I say the man's condition was overblown. Do we really need to know this? We would have liked to have known why Otis didn't support his groupmates in their concerns.Why Kenny Gamble didn't work with them when the group was labelless. Otis told very little on himself,and I say he is the reason that Paul is looked upon as he is. Tragic,which he was not. He died "tragically",he didn't live that way. Paul was a businessman who tried to help others. That was left out of Otis' STORY. Why? No respect,that's why. I'm, not trying to sell anything to anybody,but you need to look over those old articles.I remember them quite well.My parents subscribed to Ebony and Jet during those times and I never saw any Ebony,or Jet saying anything about Paul's alledged problems until he died. If his illness,or absence was talked about it was labeled as "EXAUTION"! That's what needs to be straightened out. They talked about the group in my neighborhood,too.