'Temptations Revue' relives Motown sound

[Cadeho]

Thanks I see.

I have wondered how groups decide who gets what part.

[Aba21]

This is the kind of conversation I'm looking for here. I want you to think about the possibilties and see if you can come up with logical answers.

I don't think Eddie or anyone else in the group had a say in what they recorded. If they had no qualms about paying for their own studio time, then how could they bitch about what they sang. At that precise moment I believe they were just glad to have a group and did whatever they were asked.Berry Gordy was not taking songs from group members, only people he deemed as the writers for motown.

We know for sure there was a time in between Al and David they sang as a foursome. How long they did that I don't know. But at Motown nobody was exempt from doing any kind of singing anytime, anywhere for anybody at the company.

Kalisa, I know that Eddie was having problems with the directions in which the group was going at the time. I was thinking that Paul's departure hastened Eddie's. But you think Paul was going to leave also. Why? I never heard of any displeasure on his part about the group. He seemed to be happy to be a Temptation and after his initial complaints about lead singing went about his business as usual. Was there some reason to believe that during the time between David's departure and Dennis' arrival that Paul again voiced displeasure over his role in the group?

As far as being friends, who knows? We do know that over the years Otis and Melvin became very close but my expirence told me that all was not as it seemed. They had their differences in group personel choices and other areas and how much that affected their friendship only they know.

I think most of that friendship as a group developed over the time they sang together. I say again, after the game I didn't hang out with all my teamates and I know for sure that after every concert they did not hang out together. You travel as a group and I don't think you can be as personal in a group situation as you can one on one. We will never know howmuch of that kind of time they spent together.

[Aba21]

Cadeho...that how it was decided for the groups at motown during those days. I don't know how the other companies did it but Berry was in complete charge of every aspect of the business and intentionally took those responsibilities away from the singers.

[kalisa2]

Aba...Perhaps Paul's departure or "leave" from the group hastened Eddie's departure...or not. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), Paul did perform with the group after Eddie left, on occasion at least. Anybody?

Why I think Paul would have left (had he not passed)? He was basically out of the group by the time of his death (at least to my understanding), Eddie had been solo for 2 years. Eddie had produced and backed him up on a solo endeavor. I think he may have tried solo wings, and may or may not eventually have re-joined Eddie as a business entity. All conjecture, obviously.

[Aba21]

The 1971 lp with Just My Imagination is the last one both Eddie and Paul were on, I believe. Sky's The Limit. I was under the impression that they both were out around the same time even though I know Paul may have tried to perform live some right after Eddie left. Paul may have been on Solid Rock on the It's Summer remix but that's a previously recorded song. That's the confusing part. Was Eddie now in cahoots with David because we know Paul was very sick then? Had he forsaken his brother Paul to go solo? I was under the impression all my life that Paul and Eddie were as thick as fish grease. It is in this moment of time that I wonder was Paul just trying to do anything to continue his career, even going solo along with Eddie. Maybe the group WAS giving him every opportunity to see if he could still go and he just couldn't do it. If Eddie was gone he may not have been fully aware of what was going on with Paul until they got together after Paul left. Does that make sense?

[janebse]

Paul did stay on after Eddie left. Eddie walked out between shows at the Copcabana.

Paul is pictured with the Tempts on one or two albums after Eddie left. When the doctor told Paul his health was too bad for him to continue performing, Paul officially stayed on as a Temptation and continued to receive his pay from the Temptations, and, also officially, he worked with them, helping with choreography and other aspects.

From all records, Paul never expressed a desire to go solo and was regarded by ALL the Temptations and Motown as the ultimate "team" player. What was it Melvin said? "Paul was the quintessental Temptation."

I don't think Eddie was in cahoots with David. Actually they all ran into each other at different times, but Eddie and David did not really work together until Hall and Oakes and the tour with Mary Wells and Martha Reeves in 1986 (I think it was). But these were just short performances and they were a party of someone else's organized programs. Eddie and David did not organize the "Dancin' in the Streets" tour, and whoever did had their own problems with David showing up. Now I know they were together for the Reunion Tour, but Eddie and David were not officially "working together" before then. They may have played benefits. Eddie at one time said that was all he could get in the '80's until Hall and Oakes brought them together at the Apollo. So the Hall/Oakes appearance was the first time they officially appeared together. But that didn't last long.

As to the friendship of Eddie and Paul, I have often wondered about that. I am not blaming Eddie for Paul's alcoholism. I think that was caused by the sickle cell anemia, dehydration and exercise which combined with the alcohol and resulting depression killed him. I think the physical problems came before the alcoholism, but the combination was too much.

[Aba21]

Hi Janebse......the last lp I have with them pictured is Sky's The Limit. The follow up lp to that was Solid Rock which featured Richard and Damon, then there was All Directions which featured Richard and Damon. There were three other lps GIT, Live At London..., and Greatest Hits ll along with Christmas Card which were all released in 1970 while he was still performing. He was on the Anthology lp released in 1973. I don't see him anywhere after the release of Sky's the Limit.

That is why I ask the question about whether or not Eddie would have left had Paul not been ill. Paul was missing shows prior to that show at the Copa. If all was right with the world would Eddie have left? I know we can't really answer it but I believe he would not have because Paul would have talked him out of it, I'm sure of that. Because Paul was ill and always there, the buffer he had between him and Otis was no longer there. Going back to your earlier statement about Paul being Mr. Temptation, I can see it even more.

As to Paul being around the group after he stopped performing, that was not quite how I understood it. He made some visits to the rehearsal sites when they were home and he probably had some input about choreography but how could he not? They paid him because he needed the money and was not fired; he was out on kind of sick-leave. David, Eddie and the rest were fired or quit so I don't make too much of them paying him because they should have paid him.

[kalisa2]

Aba...I agree with Janebse in that no, I don't think Eddie was in any cahoots with David. Eddie wanted to try a solo album and stay with the Temptations. It was agreed beforehand but somewhere in the works the Powers That Be or whatever changed their minds and said basically "one or the other". He chose other. That is my best information from various sources...his departure was a done deal, and something hastened the issue the night of the Copa engagement.


He didn't really team up with Ruffin as "an entity", partnership or whatever, until Hall and Oates brought them together in 1985, with the appearance at the Apollo and subsequent tour. Their joint album was in 1986, Dancin' in the Streets tour was 1987. They connected with Dennis in 1989. There were various partings and reunions from 1985 to 1991 but they honestly liked each other and the partings were brief.

[kalisa2]

Aba...I hadn't thought of your question in terms of "had Paul not been ill", only in terms of if he hadn't passed and had recovered his health to a degree.

Its hard to say which or who was the dominant or more forceful personality in that relationship, we will never know for sure. Eddie was quiet but had his own mindset. We have heard that it was Paul who convinced Eddie to come back to Detroit, thus him becoming part of the Temptations, so perhaps Paul WAS the "alpha" in that friendship. Maybe Eddie would have made other choices if Paul had been up to strength toward the end of the 60's.

[Aba21]

Ok on the cahoots but as you just said Eddie had a deal in the works to do a solo lp. There is no way Berrry would have allowed that under the circumstances unless he thought the group would disband with the Departure of Eddie and Paul. His first solo lp was released on Tamla records and I heard somewhere that some it was to be cut on the Temptations if Eddie had stayed. It is that small window of time that I wonder if they could have been saved form losing Eddie.

[kalisa2]

There is no way Berrry would have allowed that under the circumstances unless he thought the group would disband with the Departure of Eddie and Paul.

I don't know that this is so. I don't know from where Eddie got the impression that it would be ok for him to do a solo album but stay with the group. My assumption had been that he had it from BG, but that *somebody* went behind his back and convinced BG otherwise. Logically, it seems to me that Eddie would not presume that he had any kind of deal worked out unless it was with BG.

I'm saying "BG", although at the time I believe BG had 'gone Hollywood' and may have given some of the decision-making authority to someone else, who would of course answer to HIM.

[janebse]

Well, Eddie and David had their ups and downs. Several people have attested to the fact that Eddie took after David with some kind of weapon (it varies with the story). I think it was necessity that kept them together.

Perhaps the most interesting statement was one Barry Gibbs made after Maurice's death when someone said something about their staying together for all those years. "Well, we're brothers."

I watch people on this board saying, "This one's better than that one," the person varying depending on who's talking and which Tempt is their favorite. And one day I was day dreaming with my favorite scenario where I have all the Classic Five together, and I am going to keep them together. I have mentioned this before, and my realization of the problems I would have. But this one day I suddenly said to myself, "You idiot! It's going to be just like the last time. Someone will tell Eddie he's the best; another will tell David he's the best, and so forth. If people today cannot even think of them as a cohesive five without arguing over who's the best, how could anyone prevent the same situation from happening all over again."

It's only because in our hearts we want it to be that way that we believe it could be. When you are at the very top, that sort of situation may be inevitable. Only a group who wasn't at the top could probably stay together because they would have everything to lose if they broke up. And they know it. As Jimmy Ruffin said about David, "He wasn't prepared for what happened." Perhaps no one ever is.

I agree with ABA that the one most loved was Melvin. Whenever I listen or watch a live performance, it is Melvin who gets the most applause. Melvin, or as Otis says, "Mr. Cheerful himself," or as Paul said when introducing him at the Copa, "Who wouldn't love me...Mr. Melvin Franklin." He had a lovable personality.

I am grateful for the years they were together. Their voices blended so beautifully. Each day I seem to discover a new song. And sometimes just listening to them harmonize "ooh, ooh" is pure joy.

Is Mozart's work of less value because he died so young? Is their work of less value because they couldn't take the pressures of fame. AS I listen to Eddie's voice "roam" (and I do love that term), I listen with joy and gratitude.

And one song I've enjoyed this week is "Lullaby of Love." So simple, so sweet, so Eddie.

[Aba21]

Kalsia....You have just added another variable to the equation because as I have mentioned before Berry being in LA and not on top of the situation like he would have been in the past contirbuted in great way to what happened. Couple that with the back-stabber whoever he/she was and you got a major problem. I just think Berry would have nipped the whole thing in the bud if he was the Berry of early motown.

Janebse.....You're right. it's the FLynn character that I speak about that haunts all those who ascend to the top of the throne. It doesn't have to be a drug dealer, just someone who has your ear at the time. I have those dreams all the time and I think of a song Eddie sang on one of his solo works entitled EACH DAY I CRY A LITTLE. That's how I feel everytime I go down the line thinking about what happened. You're right....it makes no difference the amount of time they were together, we were blessed by the time they did share with us.

[Cadeho]

I sense that Aba and Kalisa are in cahoots !
I was listening to Paul's songs tonight since I was in the mood to hear "I Feel Like Giving Up." I have it on mp3 and don't have the CD... was Paul signed to Motown for his solo work?

[Cadeho]

Oh and how have times and record companies changed. People in groups can have solo albums while in the group. Terry Ellis, Sisqo (hope I spelled that right), Kelly Rowland... I'm surprised Dru Hill had a replacement for Sisqo!