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Post by Beej on Dec 5, 2007 1:45:03 GMT -5
However, I can give you just as many examples of White youths that do horrible things. I don't doubt it. There are roughly 200 million white people in this country. Odds are you'll come across more than your share of garbage ones in your lifetime. I wasn't looking to turn this into a white crime vs. black crime discussion, however. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colors...and bad parenting knows no racial boundaries. My participation here is really to address the original poster's concerns... "Sean [Taylor] ... was shot down at the age of 24. An occurrence that is way too common in the black community."...and to look at possible reasons why there's such an inordinate number of young black men killing other young black men. Yes, there is a definite problem in the black community, nobody is denying that, but I'm here to tell you that I see affluent White youths do just as many evil things as Black kids, you just don't hear about it because it is always covered up!!! That almost sounds like a conspiracy theory. I honestly think it all depends on where you live and what you use as your primary news source. I read the local papers and see plenty of stories about white kids and white adults being arrested for one thing or another. Of course, I also live in a predominantly white area. I have very good friends from all races and backgrounds and just as you do with your friends, we discuss things honestly. Yep...it's the only way to go. Too many people get defensive and unreasonable about race discussions. I mean, we wouldn't be here talking about it if we didn't care...so, as long as everyone cuts out the BS and just gets to the point, there's really no reason why we can't be open and discuss things sensibly. |
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Post by MissTara on Dec 5, 2007 9:31:27 GMT -5
Dang it, I really didn't want to get involved in this one, but here goes.
Beej, I completely agree with everything that you've said thus far! You say it better that I am able to.
I just wanted to bring up some points that boil in my brain. I'm sure everyone here knows about the hanging nooses at that school and they had thousands of protesters there including Rev Al Sharpton. Tom Joyner & Steve Harvey arranged transportation for some citizens in other states to go there too. That whole thing was thrown wwwaaayyy out of proportion. The only thing that the news wants to report is white on black crime. Why wasn't a severe beating that followed it announced? Why is it that when there is a racial outrage in the justice system only reported when it is done to blacks?
That guy from the radio show, Don Imus. Why is it that all of the hateful things he said about jews not a big deal? Why is it he can slam every other race on the planet and get away with it, but the first time he says something about blacks, its all over the news and people want to see him get the death penalty for that?
Kramer, from Seinfeld. (Dont know his real name) Why is it that black comedians can make white racial jokes to people in the audience, or on tv, but yet when white comedians say something about blacks, again the news media blows it way out of proportion. I'm not justifying what he said by any means. I just think its really crappy that white folks sit on egg shells trying to be reaaallyy careful about what they say, because the next thing you know, you'll be in the news, sitting on death row. Geez give me a break.
There was a guy here (in Crimeboro, NC) that was also severely beaten by about 8-10 black guys because they thought he said something racial about them. He was not physically able to go back to his normal life for almost a year because he was so severely beaten. You all didn't hear anything about that did you? What about the body they found in a creek of an unidentified white male, murdered in cold blood by someone they later found out what racially motivated? Did you hear about that?
Just last week, a client of mine, also murdered in cold blood, get this, in an apartment complex, body laid out in the breeze way, people walking by like it was a leaf in the road before it was even reported in a predominately black neighborhood, but a girl "witness" had the audacity to actually say "He was in the wrong place at the wrong time"...
What about when *I* was in school, and I was mos def the minority in school, 98% black to be exact, and I'll never forget, my science class all of the kids locked me out of the classroom and was hollering "How does it feel to be locked out white bitch, you did it to us, now were going to do it to you"..What about those experiences? Nobody has jack $hit to say about when that happens. Including teachers, because when that happened the teacher (Mrs. Champion) did nothing about it and was sitting at her desk in the room.
I live in a primarily black city, as it has always been. Now that I am grown, the racial issues really haven't changed since I was a kid. It's especially harder because I live in the south, and you would think that there would be more whites acting out the racial issues. It just isn't so. Growing up with a white mother, and a black step father, whom I call dad because he's been there since I was born, was tough too. We endured so many racial altercations its not even funny. Both because we were white, and because my dad is black.
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Post by irene170 on Dec 5, 2007 18:19:01 GMT -5
Hopefully this will be the last time I post on this topic. First, as far as the the conspiracy theory, when I talked about things not being reported and covered up, I was talking about what I have personally seen happen at my school. Again, no conspiracy, just facts. I think that we all can site cases of unfair press coverage on both sides. Also, we could give each other just as many examples of unfair treatment and racial hate crimes on both sides!! I know I certainly can, but I am not going to sit here and make that long list.
Going back to proper parenting, being a member of a certain race does not determine whether or not you instill proper values. There are people of All races who are not doing their jobs, trust me, I see it everyday.
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Post by Beej on Dec 6, 2007 5:57:04 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone here knows about the hanging nooses at that school ... That whole thing was thrown wwwaaayyy out of proportion. The Jena story is an interesting one. You're absolutely correct that the national media did what it always does...exploited a local situation for ratings and shaped the story their own way -- leaving out some important details -- to capture the attention of a wider audience. And for a few weeks, it worked. In reality, both sides have valid points. On one hand, you have citizens saying that the noose incident was simply the final straw in a series of events in which blacks were abused or harassed by whites and public officials either failed to act or handed out light punishments. On the other hand, you have the U.S. attorney charged with reviewing the evidence, Donald Washington, acknowledging that three months had passed -- without incident -- between the two events and that, contrary to the media's efforts to link the two, the noose incident and the beating were completely unrelated. The crux of the outrage, as I understand it, is that the white students responsible for hanging the nooses were only suspended from school (although the principal recommended expulsion), while the black students responsible for the beating were charged with crimes ranging from aggravated assault to attempted murder. Unfortunately, too many people let their emotions get the better of them without really knowing all the facts or understanding how the judicial system works. The white students -- all of whom were minors with no prior criminal record -- couldn't be charged with a "hate crime" under federal guidelines. The incident was handed over to school officials to handle. The black students, on the other hand, were charged at the state level for an attack in which a group of boys ganged up on one student, beat him unconscious and continued to stomp him well after he was unable to protect himself. The severity and nature of the attack warranted that the boys be charged with something greater than simple assault. Add to that, some of the boys had previous criminal records...including Jena poster-boy, Mychal Bell, who had two priors for battery among other things. In one instance, students were handled as juveniles. In the other, they were charged as adults. In my mind, given the vastly different nature of the two acts, it was the right call. Others obviously disagree. That guy from the radio show, Don Imus... I'm a longtime fan of Don Imus, actually. His biggest mistake was to continue apologizing for something which was not intended in a hurtful manner. It opened the door for the network (CBS and NBC) executives and the sponsors to justify their gross over-reaction. If you're not familiar with Don Imus' show -- and I'm quite confident in my assumption that the Rutgers Girls Basketball team and most of black America are not -- then you wouldn't understand the proper context of his comment or the general nature of the daily interaction between the various cast members. He routinely interviews members of Congress, celebrities, journalists, athletes and other high profile newsmakers of the day in a caustic, deriding manner. In the course of knocking the "mighty" down a few steps, he and the other members of the show often go into character and toss out insults at public figures designed to get a laugh. In this case, he and Producer Bernard McGuirk were discussing the loss of the Rutgers team to Tennessee the night before and broke into an impromptu imitation of two "home boys" talking on the street. As is often the case, Bernie got the ball rolling. It was a harmless comedic exchange by any reasonable assessment. Nonetheless, Imus took a moment during the next day's show to offer an apology to anyone who might have been offended...explaining that it was meant in humor and they were just acting silly. It should have ended there. By continuing to apologize day after day -- and allowing others to mischaracterize an offhand comment as a racial slur -- he let himself and his career be defined by people who knew nothing about him...many of whom had ulterior motives. Almost no one took the time to consider the circumstances or the general atmosphere of the show. The same executives who encouraged him to be irreverent for the sake of ratings caved under the pressure of protests faster than an old lawn chair under a fat kid at a barbeque. The hysteria snowballed out of control until the weenies who run the two networks were left with only one option...fire Imus and take his show off the air. The subsequent piling on from the very people he often defended or helped promote over the years was absolutely shameful. Fortunately, good sense has prevailed and he's been given the chance to resume his career with a better network. Why is it that black comedians can make white racial jokes to people in the audience, or on tv, but yet when white comedians say something about blacks, again the news media blows it way out of proportion.Well, you have to remember who runs the newsrooms at the major networks (except for Fox News Channel, of course) and the largest, most influential newspapers and news magazines in the country... liberals. Beej, I completely agree with everything that you've said thus far! You do realize that whatever popularity you had built up around here over the years just went straight out the window, right? Welcome to the dark side.  |
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Post by MissTara on Dec 6, 2007 9:24:23 GMT -5
The white students -- all of whom were minors with no prior criminal record -- couldn't be charged with a "hate crime" under federal guidelines. The incident was handed over to school officials to handle. The black students, on the other hand, were charged at the state level for an attack in which a group of boys ganged up on one student, beat him unconscious and continued to stomp him well after he was unable to protect himself. The severity and nature of the attack warranted that the boys be charged with something greater than simple assault. Add to that, some of the boys had previous criminal records...including Jena poster-boy, Mychal Bell, who had two priors for battery among other things. But thats not how most people look at it. Nobody wants to see that this guy had a prior criminal record, and was violating his probation. Its only a matter of "Well, the justice system is doing this because he's black" Thats what I am sick of. Don Imus is a prime example of nobody saying anything about his racial commentary until it is of black folks. We don't have his radio show here, but when I heard what he said, I thought to myself, and? I've heard of MANY blacks that refer to themselves as such. So why is it a big deal that a white guy reiterated it? LOL It's cool. I'm sorry that you are right so much. Beej for president! Okay, maybe not.  |
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Post by AnnaK on Dec 7, 2007 12:11:27 GMT -5
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Post by irene170 on Dec 7, 2007 14:52:31 GMT -5
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Post by maria on Dec 7, 2007 18:46:09 GMT -5
Why thank you Dr. Phil, what magazine did you gather all this information from? I don't read magazines. Those statistics are readily available from government web sites (CDC, Census Bureau, etc.) and the Urban League. In fact, the Urban League puts out much more in-depth information in its annual "The State of Black America" report. . Well maybe we need to stay out of THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA, and the URBAN LEAGUE, so we can get the real deal! Thanks Sista for posting the report it was truly en lighting See these stats are something we already know of, we don't have to read them! |
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Post by Beej on Dec 8, 2007 8:02:48 GMT -5
Well maybe we need to stay out of THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA, and the URBAN LEAGUE, so we can get the real deal! Thanks Sista for posting the report it was truly en lighting See these stats are something we already know of, we don't have to read them! Perhaps, you can enlighten me, then. What do tables showing "hate crime" statistics have to do with the epidemic of young black men killing other young black men in America? The real deal is that "hate crime" legislation is little more than a "feel good" effort to inflict harsher sentences on those who deliberately target members of racial, ethnic, religious or sexually-orientated minorities. For the record, murder, rape, robbery, larceny, arson, assault and harassment were already illegal. What people tend to overlook is that crimes committed against whites by non-whites are rarely considered or prosecuted as "hate crimes"...even when race actually is a factor. I fail to see how any of these tables or statistics address or dispute the assertions <MissTara> made regarding the dishonesty, hypocrisy and bias in the national media's reporting of crimes committed against whites by non-whites. You have to understand the mindset of liberal elitists, though. The reality and disproportionality of crime committed against whites by non-whites does not mesh with the liberal mantra defining minorities as perpetual victims. So, when such a story makes national headlines, it's generally assumed that the white victim must have done something to deserve it. A perfect example is what we saw with the national coverage of the Jena story. Although the noose-hanging incident happened three months prior to the beating of the white student, the national media attempted to link the two to show causation and justification for the black students' actions. Nevermind that the white student who was beaten senseless had nothing to do with the prior incident or that the black student being held as an adult had previous convictions for assault. They were determined to spin the story the way they wanted to tell it. It's just another reason why sensible people know better than to trust liberals with anything important. Not to mention, "hate crimes" make up a statistically insignificant percentage of overall crime. Just looking at the 2004 statistics: Hate Crimes................... 9,035 Violent Crimes.......... 1,367,009 Property Crimes...... 10,328,255 If you want to see statistics that are at least relevant to this topic, click HERE and pay special attention to Table 2.4 and Table 2.5. Keep in mind, of course, that whites outnumber blacks in the United States by more than a 6:1 ratio. What you'll see is that the number of murders committed against blacks by other blacks in 2004 was twice the number of anti-black "hate crimes." Look further and you'll see what the term "hate crime" actually includes: a threatening letter in the mailbox, a word painted on a house, a rock thrown through a window, a tire slashed on a car, etc. Murder only means one thing...someone deliberately killed someone else. If you want the "real deal," then chew on this... + Most "hate crimes" are offenses relating to intimidation and property damage. + The grand total of people murdered as the result of a "hate crime" in 2004 was 5. Not all five of those victims were black. + The number of blacks murdered by other blacks in 2004 was approximately 6,100. All those victims were black. Is there anything else you'd like to "enlighten" me about? |
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Post by AnnaK on Dec 8, 2007 12:43:50 GMT -5
The statistics I provided were meant to show that among a traumatized part of the population exists a well-founded fear of such symbols as swastikas, nooses, burning crossed etc. It's not just an overblown issue. The fear is real and hurts. Miss Tara seems to be an exquisite example of such traumatization. Unfortunately, she had been chosen to be taught the painful lesson about being shut out from the community for being different from the rest.
That hate crimes include destruction of property is not insignificant. For some people such losses cause serious economical losses that take years to recover from. For others, it even means ruin. I don't have to mention the agony that accompanies watching your life's work being destroyed.
Statistical facts do not exist in a vacuum. Tied to every statistical incident, case or victim is a human face and fate. The evaluation of hard facts, in order to be complete, has to include human/emotional aspects. Otherwise they don't mean much more than numbers.
Unfortunately, not even the most rational sounding explanation has resulted in solving the problem -- even though such rationalizations have been around at least as long as the Farrakhan approach to explaining the causes of the evil. (Paper and microphones are patient -- people are not all the time.)
Writing books, reports, and dissertations is not going to change a thing. Neither does political polarization.
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Post by maria on Dec 8, 2007 18:57:02 GMT -5
Well maybe we need to stay out of THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA, and the URBAN LEAGUE, so we can get the real deal! Thanks Sista for posting the report it was truly en lighting See these stats are something we already know of, we don't have to read them! Perhaps, you can enlighten me, then. Is there anything else you'd like to "enlighten" me about? Once again Thanks Sista for posting the report it was truly enlightening. Beej, no disrespect but I quoted that the report was enlightening to me. All that other sarcastic mess is not even necessary. You've been enlightening yourself all your life, For the life of me I can't figure out why you would need my help. |
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Post by DrTemptation "Doc T" on Dec 8, 2007 23:44:32 GMT -5
This is the state of the World Today. We seem to leave the christian perspective out. You take God out of the Schools, Family and stop going to Church to learn the Bible these are the results.
2 Chronicles 7:14, If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. KJV
America needs healing, the Black community needs healing, So much heart ache, depression, violence and drugs when will the end come.
The only way the violence will stop is GOD. Jesus is the answer. The Lord is standing by waiting for us to ask HIM to come in and resolve our issues.
On Sunday we are more concerned about a football than the state of our SOULS. The Bible is fulfilling itself...read it...these are the last days and SOMETHING IN THIS WORLD IS ABOUT TO GIVE!
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Post by irene170 on Dec 8, 2007 23:55:57 GMT -5
Perhaps, you can enlighten me, then. Is there anything else you'd like to "enlighten" me about? Once again Thanks Sista for posting the report it was truly enlightening. Beej, no disrespect but I quoted that the report was enlightening to me. All that other sarcastic mess is not even necessary. You've been enlightening yourself all your life, For the life of me I can't figure out why you would need my help. No, it's just that some people must have the last word. Don't sweat it anymore because we know the truth. |
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Post by AnnaK on Dec 9, 2007 11:43:15 GMT -5
Perhaps, you can enlighten me, then. Is there anything else you'd like to "enlighten" me about? Once again Thanks Sista for posting the report it was truly enlightening. Beej, no disrespect but I quoted that the report was enlightening to me. All that other sarcastic mess is not even necessary. You've been enlightening yourself all your life, For the life of me I can't figure out why you would need my help. You're welcome ((Maria)). For those who have not done it yet, I would recommend reading Ralph Ellison's short story "King of the Bingo Game." The story is a timeless account of what may happen to people who feel disenfranchised and powerless once they get a taste of what it means to be in control. Replace the control buttons for the wheel (of fortune) with a gun -- and you create a rather contemporary picture of the events. For those who have read it already, a re-read will perhaps dig up new insights into a complicated issue. Love and Happiness to everyone! AK Here' s a link to refresh your memory of a true literary gem: fajardo-acosta.com/worldlit/ellison/bingo.htm#synopsis |
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Post by MissTara on Dec 10, 2007 11:05:06 GMT -5
The fear is real and hurts. Miss Tara seems to be an exquisite example of such traumatization. Unfortunately, she had been chosen to be taught the painful lesson about being shut out from the community for being different from the rest. Unfortunately, I've been taught to be ignorant and "blind to the truth". At least thats what a lot of black folks tell me. Looking back, I remember in elementary school not realizing or understanding why I was picked on so much. I remember some of the black girls pinching my arms, and literally running their hands in my hair constantly asking me why I looked like I do with a black father. I never knew there was such thing as "race" until I was taught otherwise by society. To this day, race is a huge issue amongst my life here, the only exception is that I'm on the other side where most people both black and white would say that I am the majority and life is easy. A co-worker of mine constantly says the most racist things I've ever heard come out of ones mouth. She always says things like, "If money comes up missing, you know they gonna blame the house nigger". "Let me get my box, because I can't be on the phone here unless I am white." Just things like that are what I can think of at the moment. I do resent that my parents raised me that way, Although if there were more people like me, the world would be a better place. I know it sounds pretty cocky, but hey its the truth. I'm still pretty much on the fence about it as far as my children are concerned. They seem to be "ignorant and blind to the truth" also, but I do want them to know the truth about life and race even though it is hurtful. |
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