Child Handcuffed

[MissTara]

Good example, however I can give a good one too.

First of all, lets call this woman "Mom"

"Mom" was in a Barnes & Noble a few years ago with her 2 kids, a friend, and the friends son. Total 2 adults and 3 children.

The friend was on the other side of the store so "Mom" had control of all 3 kids by herself. (Which I may add all kids were between the ages of 3 and 4)

They were all holding hands going through the store, the friends kid turned around and started walking backwards, so naturally "mom's" 2 kids started doing it too.

"Mom" had to stop that! However, after a strong talkin' to, all 3 kids started doing it again. Having one kid in one hand and two in other trying to carry bags along with these kids didnt have any more hands left to pop kid # 2 for doing it again. (warnings didnt work)

So, "mom" used the side of her foot and popped her on the bottom, not even hard enough for kid # 2 to cry. But it got her attention.

Needless to say, a very "concerned" woman approached "mom" with her opinions and problems that she had with what "mom" just did to kid # 2.

Of course "mom" being the woman she is, didn't take what the other woman had to say lightly, in other words told her off for telling "mom" how to raise her children.

Anyway, she threatened to call the cops, and "mom" was not at all threatened so she unpolitely said "Go right on ahead!"

"mom" and friend and kids waited around for about 20 minutes, no show. So they left Barnes & Noble.
Later that night, Child Protective Services came to "Mom's" house and made her get both of her kids out of bed and tke their clothes off so she could see if their bodies were marked an/or bruised. Which they werent.

The next day, Child Protective Services went to the kids daycare at that time to ask the children and teachers questions without the "mom" present.

Too make a very long story short, the case was dismissed. And "mom" was told that she could press charges against the other woman.





My opinion, since I was in oooops I mean "mom" was in a place like Barnes & Noble your going to have situations like that in a place like that.

Now If I were in Wal-Mart, I coulda beat the hell outta anyone and nobody would even care.

[tabby]

Oh darned! I know exactly what you are talking about. On the one hand, I think it is good for people to be on the watch for child abuse. On the other hand, it seems they always pick the wrong cases. This is a true dilemma.
I have no solution to this problem ... and all I wanted to say anyway was that there is a need for kids to be taught proper behavior. Period! Otherwise, they will always be a thorn in society's side. That's my opinion -- nothing else.
I do not claim it is easy to accomplish; it never was. But it also is not impossible, because many parents -- single or not -- have done it before.
I sure wish all the parents the best of luck, the strongest nerves and never ending patience

[MissTara]

((Grams)) I was so upset at the fact that someone actually thought that I could abuse my children.
After reports were done, papers, conferences, CPS checking every inch of my house, even the refridgerator (sp), I cant even explain the humiliation and even how ANGRY I was.

I didn't press charges because by that point I had cooled down a little, but I sure wish I would have now.




On another point. My daddy used to beat the hell outta me when I was little, and I thank him everyday now for it. My mother ((McRibs)) never spanked me but she knew my daddy would tell me right from wrong.

[Aba21]

Without reading one word of this thread I will say that simply put, I am old school.............you live with me.....you do what I say......period.............when I say no, I don't need to give a reason..........and you will know there are consequences for your actions........period. I believe in the spare the rod, spoil the child theory!!!It don't get any simpler than that.

I don't really give a you know what what anybody else's child does.............and I don't have to worry bout any other parent coming up to me and telling me how to raise my child cause my child will have all ready learned how to act when we go into a store........just the way my mother taught me. She said don't touch nothing! Don't do nothing! Don't Ask for nothing and you will make it back to the car alive!!!! ;D ;D

All that being said.........I can truthfully say I never had to whup my children ever. I may have given them a spank on the rump once in a while but whuppins..............naw!!! They learned their lessons very well i think..............better than I did cause I got my natural you know what whupped on almost a daily basis. ;D ;D ;D I think I spent half my childhood on some kind of punishment. But I didn't turn out too bad, IMO. ;D

[MissTara]

Thats what I'm saying too. I became a better person as I grew up because of my parents. Thanks ((McRibs)) and ((Daddy))!

Aba, Its easier for you to say that because you are a man. A big one at that. I am a single mother, so its a little harder for me to "not to spank, or even threaten a spanking" and still have "good" children". I'm sure you know what I mean.

[MissTara]

MissTara said:

Aba, Its easier for you to say that because you are a man. A big one at that.

And on top of this comment, if you were to take my kids to any store anywhere, I think they'd be afraid to blink. ;D

[Gua]

Aba21 said:

Without reading one word of this thread I will say that simply put, I am old school.............you live with me.....you do what I say......period.............when I say no, I don't need to give a reason..........and you will know there are consequences for your actions........period. I believe in the spare the rod, spoil the child theory!!!It don't get any simpler than that.

I don't really give a you know what what anybody else's child does.............and I don't have to worry bout any other parent coming up to me and telling me how to raise my child cause my child will have all ready learned how to act when we go into a store........just the way my mother taught me. She said don't touch nothing! Don't do nothing! Don't Ask for nothing and you will make it back to the car alive!!!! ;D ;D

All that being said.........I can truthfully say I never had to whup my children ever. I may have given them a spank on the rump once in a while but whuppins..............naw!!! They learned their lessons very well i think..............better than I did cause I got my natural you know what whupped on almost a daily basis. ;D ;D ;D I think I spent half my childhood on some kind of punishment. But I didn't turn out too bad, IMO. ;D

Aba, I couldn't help but smile as I read your post....I couldn't agree more nor have said it better
This post has hit on a very serious societal problem. Like Anna, I work in the school system, although I am not a teacher. I have the pleasure of observing High school (public) kids throughout the day. Anna is right on point with her post, however the public school classes are double what she experienced and it is very bad.
The bottom line is children are not taught discipline at an early age (1-6) they will be "out of control" when they percieve themselves to be men and women which teenagers think are.
Anyone that disagrees are welcome to walk into any public high school and just observe

[kalisa2]

AnnaKonda said:

You parents should be grateful that there are still people around who are willing to deal with such kids.
I hope this child will be seeing a child psychologist very soon ... and next time she acts up, I would not ask the mom to come to the school, I would take the girl to the mom. I wonder what she would do to keep her workplace from being disturbed like that ...

Agree 1000%. And the mother perhaps given parenting guidance. Discipline needs to begin at home.

Watching this video, it appeared to me that the child was learning, or having reinforced, that there were no negative consequences to her for misbehaving and destruction. With children this age, the consequences need to be more immediate IMO... not after half hour or so of disobedience, doing what she pleased, property destruction and up to and including hitting the teacher/administrator. Do we know if she even associated her bad behavior with the final outcome/handcuffing?

[tabby]

MissTara said:

((Grams)) I was so upset at the fact that someone actually thought that I could abuse my children.
After reports were done, papers, conferences, CPS checking every inch of my house, even the refridgerator (sp), I cant even explain the humiliation and even how ANGRY I was.

I didn't press charges because by that point I had cooled down a little, but I sure wish I would have now.




On another point. My daddy used to beat the hell outta me when I was little, and I thank him everyday now for it. My mother ((McRibs)) never spanked me but she knew my daddy would tell me right from wrong.

((Tara)) I understand you. It must have been absolutely humiliating for you.
Now, speaking as someone who never had children, what would you consider a situation where you would step in yourself? If you were at walmart, for example, what parental behavior would make you scratch your head, saying "I don't know ..." I am just curious.
I usually try to establish eye-contact with both the parent and the child to get a feeling for the situation. What I sense most of the time is defiance in the kid and anger in the parent. That seems to be "normal" in my book. If I could sense terror and fear in a child, I would say/do something too. It is a difficult situation, but I must say, Tara, I'd rather err on the side of a child's safety, although, most truly abusive parents keep their dirty business hidden from the public, I believe.
And I agree with you and Aba that most spankings I received actually taught me how far I could go.
Another question ((Tara)). Did the person who caused you the trouble apologize to you? Would that have made you feel a little better?

[kalisa2]

Tara... I'm not going to quote you, but first thing that came to MY mind was that this same woman would have been the first one screaming at you and to the store manager if you...er..."Mom"... had allowed the child/children to carry on as they wanted, without intervention.

>>>sigh<<< damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[kalisa2]

Gua said:

This post has hit on a very serious societal problem.
The bottom line is children are not taught discipline at an early age (1-6) they will be "out of control" when they percieve themselves to be men and women which teenagers think are.
Anyone that disagrees are welcome to walk into any public high school and just observe

That's why I brought it up, it raised some very serious questions in my mind. I'm enjoying and appreciating the responses. My kids are grown now, but as I understand, even down to middle schools are resembling armed camps in some places

[tabby]

kalisa2 said:

Agree 1000%. And the mother perhaps given parenting guidance. Discipline needs to begin at home.

Watching this video, it appeared to me that the child was learning, or having reinforced, that there were no negative consequences to her for misbehaving and destruction. With children this age, the consequences need to be more immediate IMO... not after half hour or so of disobedience, doing what she pleased, property destruction and up to and including hitting the teacher/administrator. Do we know if she even associated her bad behavior with the final outcome/handcuffing?

Now, I am also thinking that the mother needs help with such a child. Can you imagine to have had a bad day at work and facing a stubborn child like this one? The problem with such issues is very complex, I think. What could we as a society do to alleviate such stress factors for both parents and children?

[kalisa2]

OK, I'm no advocate of child abuse certainly, and I believe there needs to be some restrictions on how far school authorities can go to maintain discipline... but... it seems to me we have neutered them to impotence. Without demanding that the children in their charge have some sort of self-discipline instilled before even entering their charge.

Now, when I was in school, a trip to the principal's office was not taken lightly. It was rumored that this would lead to a spanking by someone in the office. NOW, I never actually knew anybody this happened to (I did see "bad boys" sometimes leaving the Office with a hint of tears in their eyes, but they never 'admitted' to being spanked). BUT... I did know someone who knew someone whose best friend's cousin's older sister's boyfriend FOR SURE it happened to, so there ya go. It was fact.

And I knew with absolutely positively NO uncertainty that a trip to the Office for me would be followed by *something bad* (probably another spanking) when I got home from school.

Needless to say, the one time I did get 'sent to the office' I was in tears all the way there and admitted to and apologized for everything I ever did wrong in my life including stealing my friends pack of gum, before the principal ever got a word out... which turned out to be all she did, talk to me about how disappointed she was at some minor infraction I had committed....and told me if I promised to mend my ways she saw no need to call my parents. <<< whew!! >>>

Now, I'm not saying to bring back spanking as an authorized disciplinary action in the schools... there were abuses and we know it . But fear of *something bad* happening immediately for misbehavior is not necessarily a bad thing.

[kalisa2]

AnnaKonda said:

Now, I am also thinking that the mother needs help with such a child. Can you imagine to have had a bad day at work and facing a stubborn child like this one? The problem with such issues is very complex, I think. What could we as a society do to alleviate such stress factors for both parents and children?

My problem here is that there seems to be an expectation on the teachers to "do something", to teach the children discipline and acceptible classroom behavior, without allowing them any tools to work with when disruptive behavior rears its head. For instance, the "no touching". Even to the point of restraining the child from damaging property, or enforcing the "sit down" or "go to the time-out room". What do you do?

You're right, it is a very complex issue. Where do parental responsibilities end and the school's/society's begin?

[MissTara]

AnnaKonda said:

((Tara)) I understand you. It must have been absolutely humiliating for you.
Now, speaking as someone who never had children, what would you consider a situation where you would step in yourself? If you were at walmart, for example, what parental behavior would make you scratch your head, saying "I don't know ..." I am just curious.
I usually try to establish eye-contact with both the parent and the child to get a feeling for the situation. What I sense most of the time is defiance in the kid and anger in the parent. That seems to be "normal" in my book. If I could sense terror and fear in a child, I would say/do something too. It is a difficult situation, but I must say, Tara, I'd rather err on the side of a child's safety, although, most truly abusive parents keep their dirty business hidden from the public, I believe.
And I agree with you and Aba that most spankings I received actually taught me how far I could go.
Another question ((Tara)). Did the person who caused you the trouble apologize to you? Would that have made you feel a little better?

I for one wouldnt say to a person how to raise their kids, or how to punish them. If I saw something very unruly, I would let the police or owners of the store handle that one. You never kknow how psycho these people are, so I dont stick my nose in it.

And no she didnt apologize, I had no contact with her after that. And since I didnt press charges, there was no reason for contact