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Post by kalisa2 on Apr 23, 2005 10:25:21 GMT -5
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Post by jusme on Apr 23, 2005 19:18:21 GMT -5
I've got three words: That's just sad.
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Post by Temptress on Apr 23, 2005 19:21:16 GMT -5
I saw that........I was horrified. 5 years old......why not just take her to the office for the rest of the day.......but call the cops.......why?  There was no reason for handcuffs. Shes only 5. |
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Post by jusme on Apr 23, 2005 19:36:29 GMT -5
Well, I didn't see the tape, so I can't say anything... but all I know is that there are some bad little kids that I'd like to handcuff.
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Post by kalisa2 on Apr 23, 2005 21:34:23 GMT -5
......why not just take her to the office for the rest of the day........ Temptress... She was taken to the office. She had proceeded to trash it. What tools did the teacher/administrators have at their disposal to prevent the trashing of the classroom and office? I don't know what happened at the outset, why the classroom had been emptied of all but the girl. I think the teacher/principal (I'm not sure which was who) indicated the classroom had been cleared because of this child's behavior. Again, what other tools did they have to enforce any discipline? Obviously the much repeated "This is not acceptible" and "You are not going to do that" just didn't work. There were no consequences to her disobeying and continuing to vandalize, not to mention whooping some administrator butt, 5-year-old style. The mother couldn't come take the child. Was the school obligated to disrupt class time for all other students, and administrator time? They were not allowed to touch her (apparently other than to protect themselves and to do what was necessary to prevent her hurting herself). So they could not restrain her by touching. I'm up in the air on that one (the handcuffs). At the time, she had seemed to quiet down. But again, what if she started up again? How would you have the police (or those in authority at the school) restrain her from continuing her demolition derby? What consequences would you deem appropriate for her behavior, if any? Up to the handcuffs, there had been none whatsoever. (other than listening to the "This is not acceptible", which bothered her not at all apparently.) There was some low talk from someone about "we need more suspensions", which gave me to believe this was their one and only disciplinary armament (other than "chill out" time I would guess). And this would do what? The mother was unable to leave her job to come get the child during a crisis, and apparently had no one to call on to come remove the child from the school... so we're left with what? Child left home alone while mom/parents work, during suspension? Entire family deprived of income to stay home with suspended child? School forced into devoting full teacher/administrator time for one unruly child, leaving the non-problems without teacher-time? |
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Post by MissTara on Apr 24, 2005 7:20:22 GMT -5
I saw that last night too. That is rediculous. I agree with jusme, there are bad a$$ kids I'd like to handcuff, but thats not something you take literally.
I've already heard it turned into a racial situation. I've heard and I quote, "If that was a white kid, that wouldn't have happened." Which is ignorrant and I said so. But then again, its all in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by Gua on Apr 24, 2005 10:41:32 GMT -5
Temptress... She was taken to the office. She had proceeded to trash it. What tools did the teacher/administrators have at their disposal to prevent the trashing of the classroom and office? I don't know what happened at the outset, why the classroom had been emptied of all but the girl. I think the teacher/principal (I'm not sure which was who) indicated the classroom had been cleared because of this child's behavior. Again, what other tools did they have to enforce any discipline? Obviously the much repeated "This is not acceptible" and "You are not going to do that" just didn't work. There were no consequences to her disobeying and continuing to vandalize, not to mention whooping some administrator butt, 5-year-old style. The mother couldn't come take the child. Was the school obligated to disrupt class time for all other students, and administrator time? They were not allowed to touch her (apparently other than to protect themselves and to do what was necessary to prevent her hurting herself). So they could not restrain her by touching. I'm up in the air on that one (the handcuffs). At the time, she had seemed to quiet down. But again, what if she started up again? How would you have the police (or those in authority at the school) restrain her from continuing her demolition derby? What consequences would you deem appropriate for her behavior, if any? Up to the handcuffs, there had been none whatsoever. (other than listening to the "This is not acceptible", which bothered her not at all apparently.) There was some low talk from someone about "we need more suspensions", which gave me to believe this was their one and only disciplinary armament (other than "chill out" time I would guess). And this would do what? The mother was unable to leave her job to come get the child during a crisis, and apparently had no one to call on to come remove the child from the school... so we're left with what? Child left home alone while mom/parents work, during suspension? Entire family deprived of income to stay home with suspended child? School forced into devoting full teacher/administrator time for one unruly child, leaving the non-problems without teacher-time? Kalisa, you bring up some very valid points. This child was out of control, and there was no mechanism for handling her. I don't necessarily agree with the handcuffs But there has to be something put in place for situations like that. With that said I am suspicious of the this whole situation. There is more to the story than the video. Just the fact there was a video is suspicious.....this thing has happened before and this time the administrators were ready with the camera. The news reported that there was a history between the child an the AD, we are not privy to that, we are only shown the video and of course the adminstrator is playing to the video.....There is more to this story  |
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Post by Temptress on Apr 24, 2005 11:05:02 GMT -5
I understand your point kalisa....... I just think it could have been handled better. The cops (I saw three)were uncalled for. I wonder why the mother couldn't come to the school or did they tell her they were calling the cops? Being a mother of two myself it was just hard for me to see that child in handcufffs.
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Post by kalisa2 on Apr 24, 2005 11:45:03 GMT -5
Kalisa, you bring up some very valid points. This child was out of control, and there was no mechanism for handling her. I don't necessarily agree with the handcuffs But there has to be something put in place for situations like that. With that said I am suspicious of the this whole situation. There is more to the story than the video. Just the fact there was a video is suspicious.....this thing has happened before and this time the administrators were ready with the camera. The news reported that there was a history between the child an the AD, we are not privy to that, we are only shown the video and of course the adminstrator is playing to the video.....There is more to this story Gua... I have my own thoughts about this particular video. I may be all wet and completely wrong. I think it was an enactment of some sort. That child didn't seem really "out of control" to me... I've seen better (acting bratty and destructive) at my local Walmart on any given Saturday. Regardless, whether 'real' or an enactment... it still raises the same questions. I do believe, if this particular incident wasn't 'real', that it has really happened, and not just in this one place. So the same questions are raised. Temptress... you say "handled better". Do you have any suggestions? I believe that at some point in the video "campus security" or "campus police" were mentioned as needing to be called. Were these local law enforcement people or campus security? I don't know. As to the mother, that again raises big-time questions. If the child had been hurt or injured, or sick, would she still not be able to get off work to come get the child? Had the child injured somebody else, would Mom still be unavailable until 3:15? Should there be any kind of question that, when the school calls, the parent comes? The attitude seemed to me that she knew the child would be watched over and cared for so she wasn't leaving her job. Not that she felt she had any obligation to remove her unruly child from the school. Again, same questions apply whether 'real' or 'faked'. |
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Post by Coey on Apr 24, 2005 13:39:33 GMT -5
I didnt click on the link.. but I did see some of it on the news.. handcuffing a 5 yr old.. noo I cant even imagine that.. my grandson is 4 and there is no way.. Id allow anyone to handcuff him... .. couldnt there have been a time out room.. with a BIG GUY in there.. I know how a LOW mans voice straightens up my grandson.. maybe that would have worked.... for the time being.. till mom could get there? Ive had jobs where if I left too many times for kid things.. that I was threatened with being fired.. Its hard to raise kids.. especially now.. if she is a single mom.. its triple hard... raising the kids.. trying to keep a job (or 2) throughout all the little illnesses.. and if you dont have anyone who is not working to go pick up the child.. well.. its left up to you..
the only thing I can come up with for the school.. is to put her in a time out room.. told to sit on the chair.. with a big old husky voice man. to tell her to SIT.. or... ya can go back to the old put your fingers on the wall.. while being 2 feet from the wall.. that hurts!!.. that way.. no school official is'nt touching her.. but with the voice. just scaring the daylites out of her..... could work....
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Post by janebse on Apr 24, 2005 17:14:25 GMT -5
I did not watch all of either of the videos. However, in the little bit I watched I did not see the handcuffing nor did I see anything to warrant handcuffing. I did see a teacher who seemed to be driving a child up the wall. WHy was she hovering over the kid the whole time? At that point nothing seemed to be happening.
I know there are kids who drive you up the wall. But this year I've watched some episodes of The Nanny (British Nanny who comes and solves problems of misbehaving children). When I saw the children before the Nanny came, they were horrible and I thought nothing could be done for them and pitied the poor parents. But then the Nanny comes in, and one sees it is really the parents' inexperience and mistakes that are causing the problem. The nanny tells them what is wrong, suggests methods to improve problem and VOILA! I have been most impressed.
I think the Nanny's training program needs to be brought to the States and shown to prospective teachers.
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Post by kalisa2 on Apr 25, 2005 9:24:37 GMT -5
... .. couldnt there have been a time out room.. with a BIG GUY in there.. I know how a LOW mans voice straightens up my grandson.. And if the child just says no to going to the time-out room? (this apparently happened). If there are no BIG GUYS on staff with LOW voices? Do we hire one? I've been there too as a single mom, and completely understand all the difficulties and unsympathetic bosses. But, in the big picture... where/when are your (single parent, nobody to come get the child) rights/needs to a 'free babysitter' superceded by my (parent of non-problem child, all 20 of us in the class) right to have my child(ren) in a safe peaceful learning environment? Where's the line? *MY (all 20 of us)* childs teachers valuable time is being stolen to use as a free babysitter for the one. And... if you can't/won't come get the child when requested, at what level do you ceed your parental rights ("I wouldn't allow that...") to those you are foisting your child on, when they have requested her removal? Again, if she just says "no"? You can't touch her to force her, remember. She WAS told to sit. She said 'no', or ignored the order. And how do you make her do this if she says 'no'? |
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Post by kalisa2 on Apr 25, 2005 9:28:46 GMT -5
I did not watch all of either of the videos. However, in the little bit I watched I did not see the handcuffing nor did I see anything to warrant handcuffing. I did see a teacher who seemed to be driving a child up the wall. WHy was she hovering over the kid the whole time? At that point nothing seemed to be happening. I know there are kids who drive you up the wall. But this year I've watched some episodes of The Nanny (British Nanny who comes and solves problems of misbehaving children). When I saw the children before the Nanny came, they were horrible and I thought nothing could be done for them and pitied the poor parents. But then the Nanny comes in, and one sees it is really the parents' inexperience and mistakes that are causing the problem. The nanny tells them what is wrong, suggests methods to improve problem and VOILA! I have been most impressed. I think the Nanny's training program needs to be brought to the States and shown to prospective teachers. I haven't had the opportunity to watch either of the "Nanny" series. I'm wondering why you suggest it should be shown to prospective teachers, without mentioning prospective parents in there? Isn't that where the discipline needs to start? Isn't that what we want? Not saying that teacher's shouldn't watch it too... but I would definitely include that kind of training in with all the LaMaze classes prospective parents are happy to attend. please note: I'm not putting down anybody's ideas or thoughts... just asking questions. I don't have answers. |
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Post by edafan on Apr 25, 2005 10:47:03 GMT -5
Too many times I have been in public where the parents refuse to tell the child "no" They go to any length to let society or the group have to corral their children instead of them doing it.
I will give you on little example. I have been in lines overnight at some times during the Larry Bird era to get tickets.
Once in the 1990's, Robert Parrish was signing autographs for free at the local mall. We normal fans were in line waiting patiently. Two teens tried to cut the line about two spaces in front of me. Their parents were off to the side. i spoke up, but they ignored me. So I called security and they placed them at the back of the line where they should be, but I got a dressing down from the ignorant parents who thought that their kids should be allowed to do anything they wanted.
We in education have to deal with this issue every day.
Parents meed to make their kids mind them, and others who are in charge of their well being. PERIOD
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Post by tabby on Apr 25, 2005 11:15:03 GMT -5
All I have to say to this is that, if this little brat is not being shown how to behave properly now -- wait until she is 14, 15 or sixteen. I taught 10th graders who were desperately in need of self discipline ... at a LUTHERAN high school. In a class of 11 students there were two kids with acceptable social behavior. The rest of them were cheating, lying, talking dirty -- in short, they were pretty disgusting.
You parents should be grateful that there are still people around who are willing to deal with such kids.
I hope this child will be seeing a child psychologist very soon ... and next time she acts up, I would not ask the mom to come to the school, I would take the girl to the mom. I wonder what she would do to keep her workplace from being disturbed like that ...
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