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Post by Aba21 on Jun 29, 2005 19:27:12 GMT -5
Why does Texas always come up? I never hear a person of no color bring up Texas Aba. Why must we bring up things that happened many moons ago? Me saything that doesn't have anything to do wih Texas, but still as long as 18-1900 "black slaves" come up in a conversation, there will always be an arguement between whites and blacks only...Again, I think I've said this before in another thread, but there are times where I'd kill to be Chinese, just to escape from racial commentary I mentioned Texas because of a personal issue which she is aware of Tara. I have no issues with Texas more than any other place I've been. |
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Post by tabby on Jun 29, 2005 20:45:38 GMT -5
"Oh, and "Dream Team" is a reference to the US Men's Olympic Basketball team when we started sending NBA All-stars instead of college players. They were the best of the best...and stomped the opposition with ease. If you see something derogatory in that, you're looking a lot harder than I."Yes, I am looking much harder at such "name-callings." There was always a hint of mockery involved when the "Dream Team" was mentioned. It was perhaps as derogatory a remark as was possible without insulting these men directly for defending a wife batterer and murderer. On the other hand, it served the prosecution as an excuse for their own not so proficient performance. The prosecution could always claim that they had not the same resources available as the defense ... ((Beej)) I believe in looking behind the facades, weighing the connotations and insinuations of words used in certain circumstances. And, of course, that leaves one of my messes behind ...  PS: I use the term "Dream Team" mostly in a derogatory sense. For example, whenever I watch a group of people who consider themselves irresistible, important, irreplaceable etc. they become the "Dream Team." If you hear me say, "Here comes the Dream Team," it is not flattering at all. 
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Post by tabby on Jun 29, 2005 21:15:07 GMT -5
"For years, black men were lynched just for looking at or speaking to white women because they were and still are thought to be the eptiome of purity and beauty."
I don't think that is true any longer. I also think that the major factor for this behavior was the white man's fear of losing control over the weaker sex. I would like to remind you, ((jusme)), that white women considered to have had relations with black men for a long, long time had to suffer too. They were often brutally beaten and ostracized for their conduct and rejected on both sides of the line.
Many of the women who accused black men of having "violated" them were forced into making such allegations.
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Post by jusme on Jun 29, 2005 21:40:18 GMT -5
I will say this, as a commentary on how far we have come. You say "Some people still want to hang OJ." But the fact is, he is still living, free and what sounds like comfortably (financially speaking). This may not...no...probably WOULD not, be the case, even 50 years ago.  I sort of meant this as a metaphor. I'm not saying that some people literally want to hang him, (though they may) but that they still want him to pay. I feel that if he did do it, which I think he very well may have had something to do with it, he'll get his...eventually. |
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Post by Aba21 on Jun 29, 2005 21:53:36 GMT -5
"For years, black men were lynched just for looking at or speaking to white women because they were and still are thought to be the eptiome of purity and beauty."I don't think that is true any longer. I also think that the major factor for this behavior was the white man's fear of losing control over the weaker sex. I would like to remind you, ((jusme)), that white women considered to have had relations with black men for a long, long time had to suffer too. They were often brutally beaten and ostracized for their conduct and rejected on both sides of the line. Many of the women who accused black men of having "violated" them were forced into making such allegations. They may not lynch them but they drag them behind pickups in Texas! |
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Post by tabby on Jun 29, 2005 22:20:00 GMT -5
... are we off the topic? ;D
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Post by jusme on Jun 29, 2005 22:21:34 GMT -5
"For years, black men were lynched just for looking at or speaking to white women because they were and still are thought to be the eptiome of purity and beauty."I don't think that is true any longer. I also think that the major factor for this behavior was the white man's fear of losing control over the weaker sex. I would like to remind you, ((jusme)), that white women considered to have had relations with black men for a long, long time had to suffer too. They were often brutally beaten and ostracized for their conduct and rejected on both sides of the line. Many of the women who accused black men of having "violated" them were forced into making such allegations. Well, first of all, you really don't have to remind me of anything. I am not an expert, nor am I claiming to be, considering I'm only a 17 teen year-old that just graduated from high school, but I do study a lot of these issues. I personally don't feel that "the major factor for this behavior was the white man's fear of losing control over the weaker sex" but that it was an excuse to commit murder. You also speak of white women "considered to have had relations with black men" being "brutally beaten and ostracized". In most of these cases, the charge was rape, not "having relations", while no physical contact was ever made, and I highly doubt anyone actually believed that it was, but it was used as a good reason to carry out lynchings. And about the statement I made regarding white women, "purity and beauty", just ask yourself these questions: Why are women in Asia having plastic surgery in order to have their eyes widened for a more "western" look? Why are women in India paying thousands of dollars on skin-bleaching? Why did Michael Jackson bleach-nah, I'm kidding. |
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Post by tabby on Jun 29, 2005 22:24:54 GMT -5
... oops! 17 and very angry, I believe.
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Post by jusme on Jun 29, 2005 22:25:37 GMT -5
... are we off the topic? ;D I think we've been off the topic for a while. ;D |
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Post by jusme on Jun 29, 2005 22:27:07 GMT -5
... oops! 17 and very angry, I believe. Not angry, 17 and a know-it-all is more like it.  |
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Post by Beej on Jun 30, 2005 0:36:10 GMT -5
ABA... Whoever said "adversity builds character" wasn't fooling. Hearing you speak about your path to the NBA explains why you come across in your posts the way you do. And it also explains why schools want to bring you in to talk to kids about avoiding the pitfalls and reaching for their goals. Hell, it's inspirational to me... and I'm a grown man!For those of us born well after the Civil Rights legislation was adopted, it's so hard to fathom people treating others in such a manner. There's no way I could possibly understand the mindset that thinks separate facilities and separate water fountains is okay...let alone to make it institutionalized. Our past is what it is, though, and although slavery is a distant stain on this country's history, the struggle for equality is still very much alive. Will there ever be a day when race isn't an issue? I don't know. With Hispanics now ahead of Blacks as the largest minority group...with illegals pouring into the southern border states in record numbers...with policy makers looking the other way to help their wealthy business constituents continue to exploit cheap labor...I think the topic of race is here to stay, at least for my lifetime. "Has that ever happened to you?"As a matter of fact, yeah, the credit card situation has. When I went to a department store with my mother, we sailed right through...no questions asked. When I went back by myself a few weeks later, I had to show ID. Of course, I didn't read anything into it because I'm white, too. When I mentioned it to my mother, she said, "Oh, that's because they know me over there!" I've now shopped there enough that they know me as "Joelle's son"...so I'm good. ;D You're right, though...if it's store policy, it should apply for everyone all the time...even if it's just a matter of going through the motions for regular customers they "know." That would head off potential misunderstandings before they had a chance to develop. I can't say what was in that cashier's head when she asked you for ID...it may have been as harmless as the situation I just described or it may have been something more. Without knowing her, it's impossible to say. I'm not a fool, though. I've seen too many hidden-camera and undercover reports on this topic to believe you and I can walk into the same set of stores and be treated equally 100% of the time. Chances are, the higher-end places will be the worst offenders...but, again, we're talking about a different class of white folks, too. Look, ABA, there's no way I could possibly understand what it's like to go through life in your shoes...big as they may be. I'm certain you handle it much better than I would, but it's disgraceful that you or anyone else should have to "handle it" at all. Hey, TB, you're a solid citizen in my book...and that's all that matters to me. Anna, sweet Anna... "((Beej)) I believe in looking behind the facades, weighing the connotations and insinuations of words used in certain circumstances. And, of course, that leaves one of my messes behind ..."In other words, you like digging up new conspiracies. jusme... "...considering I'm only a 17 teen year-old that just graduated from high school..."Congratulations! "Now, maybe OJ is guilty as sin, but he had his trial and he was found not gulity,and yet...people are still trying to hang him..."Yes and no. Yes, he received a favorable decision and was set free, but no we don't have to accept the verdict. That said, I don't wish any harm on the man. What's done is done. He's certainly not the first person to get away with murder and he won't be the last. Truth be told, his punishment on the outside may end up being worse than anything he might have experienced behind bars. At least in there he could've kept playing the part of the hero..."the man." On the outside, he's scorned...a pariah. For a guy with a huge ego who loves to be admired, there's nothing worse than being ignored. The films, TV spots and advertising deals he grew accustomed to are gone; no one will touch him with a ten-foot pole for fear of public backlash. The "important people" in the industry don't return his phone calls anymore...they're afraid of being linked with him in public. His kids may or may not look at him differently...wondering if he really did take their mother from them. This is likely the way it's going to be for the rest of his life. So, yeah, he's free...but the celebrity life he once enjoyed is gone. For much of America, his legacy is no longer just that of a Hall of Fame running back, but that of a murderer...and the two will forever be linked. |
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Post by Coey on Jun 30, 2005 1:40:41 GMT -5
.......... Will there ever be a day when race isn't an issue? Your quote struck something in me.... Up until last July.. I never thought much about this race issue or that race issue.. being from very multicultural neighborhood I grew up in...but I do feel the need to say something on this..that still bothers me to this day.. and I havent been able to shake it off... It woke me up to realizing.. things on both sides in some peoples minds really hasnt changed alot. everyone at work knows my all time favorite group is the Tempts.... earlier that year I had made friends friends with a new employee in a different section at work.. we would take our breaks together during the day.. I would help her with certain parts of her new position that she hadnt been shown how to do.....we talked about our families..how shes doing on her new job.. etc... she completley changed when I told her I was going to see the Tempts.. the first words out of her mouth were.. " oh.. so you like our black men".. long pause....."thats ok.. go ahead.. Like our black men" I was soo not prepared for that.. and really didnt expect ANYTHING like that .. all I could do was look at her.. and say This is not about Black or white.. this is the Tempts.. and I will like who I like...Friend, fan or lover, I will like who I like.... and with that I walked away.. never spoke to her again.. she ended up leaving work a few months later, Until that moment.. it had been YEARS since I felt that race card being played... but with the one comment... it brought it all back.. I kept my history to myself.. she had no clue as to how I was brought up.. how I lived, who is in my family.. what I have witnessed in my life..the things Ive done in my life.... no clue.. and to just say something like that regarding the Tempts... I.. I still dont know what to say.. My eyes got opened again last July that there is still that old crap.. still out there.. on all sides... I just wonder how they feel inside, all sides... being like that. Its just a shame.. Now I can see some old grannys and even some old mommas still thinking like that.. cause alla that was in their time...but I am seeing more and more of even some of those younger then I doing those looks.. making those comments (both sides).. and when they do.. I drop 'em.. if it happens to be someone I HAVE to work with.. its strickly business.. I dont get into ANY conversation with them that is not business.. and just keep my own list in my head.. of who not to befriend. just had to add my two cents worth.. cuz it still bothers me.. |
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Post by Gua on Jun 30, 2005 6:11:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure how I missed all of this disscusion but it has been a very good read!!....Race is what it is and I think Beej said it well it will always be around at least in our lifetime  Being able to discuss in a civilized manner is very important to to dissolving of racial barriers, can we give the Tempts credit for this on this forum?? I ( think so, it is our common ground |
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Post by tabby on Jun 30, 2005 11:00:20 GMT -5
Being able to discuss in a civilized manner is very important to to dissolving of racial barriers, can we give the Tempts credit for this on this forum?? I ( think so, it is our common ground Of COURSE the Tempts get the credit!! Hey, they helped "bring down the rope" in the dance halls! ;D ;D ;D ... why shouldn't they continue to do so today, even if 'the rope' is only metaphorical? interesting (to me) is that I've read, not sure where, maybe Raynoma Gordy Singleton, that BG himself wasn't all that interested in taking part in the Civil Rights movement that was going on right in Motown's heyday... he was all about the $$ to be made from the cross-over appeal. But hey, whatever works, no?As little as I like what I've read about BG, I think it was his right as an individual to decide what movement to join or not. There are always different ways to achieve the same goal; BG sure created a legacy by doing things his own way. And without him, who knows whether The Temptations had ever had a chance to tear down these ropes? Anyway, I am glad they did. And I am grateful for the great music we've got from them!  |
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Post by tabby on Jun 30, 2005 11:57:32 GMT -5
As little as I like what I've read about BG, I think it was his right as an individual to decide what movement to join or not. There are always different ways to achieve the same goal; BG sure created a legacy by doing things his own way. And without him, who knows whether The Temptations had ever had a chance to tear down these ropes? Anyway, I am glad they did. And I am grateful for the great music we've got from them! I agree 100% with your comments. My note wasn't to be critical of BG in any way, I just found it interesting in my reading is all. I never took it that way, Kalisa; just was spitting out my spontaneous thoughts (again) about that subject. Being German, I myself am runnig as fast as I can from anything that smells of "mass consensus." So I perfectly understand people who will not join in any group movements. |
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I sort of meant this as a metaphor. I'm not saying that some people literally want to hang him, (though they may) but that they still want him to pay. I feel that if he did do it, which I think he very well may have had something to do with it, he'll get his...eventually.
