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Post by DrTemptation "Doc T" on Nov 29, 2007 8:30:13 GMT -5
 Sean Taylor's death are the violent way he died and his young age. He was shot down at the age of 24. An occurrence that is way too common in the black community. My prayers go out to the family. These streets are dangerous and there is an evil force called SATAN. His mandate is to STEAL, KILL and DESTROY. We are seeing this on the professional level. These are the LAST DAYS and I feel that we need to wake up and turn to God. He went to college. He got a job that earned him millions and by several accounts had a bright career ahead of him. By its true definition, Taylor was living the 'American Dream.' But it was all blown away by a gun shot wound. This is the second time this year that a bullet has snatched away that dream from a young, black NFL player. The first bright day of 2007 turned dark for Darrent Williams, a Denver Broncos cornerback, who was murdered in a drive-by shooting near a Denver nightclub. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. KJV ONE MORE SCRIPTURE 2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. KJV DoctorTemptation
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Post by otisann1955 on Nov 29, 2007 16:19:05 GMT -5
I got it now, that young man was shot down in his home I feel so sorry for him and his family.
I pry 08 will be a better year no more killing thats my only wish for christmas peace on earth.
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Post by otisann1955 on Nov 29, 2007 16:22:40 GMT -5
23 Eagles - - DO NOT DELETE (note: when forwarded an eagle is added.)  Prayer wheel for our soldiers and love ones...please don't break it Please send this on after a short prayer. When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer for our troopsaround th world 'Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us i our time f need. I sk this in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Amen.' There is nothing attached. This can be very powerful. Just send this to all the peopl in your address book. Do not stop the wheel, please... Of all the gifts you could give a US Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine & others deployed in harm's way, prayer is the very best one. I noticed that as I forwarded this..another eagle was added!! Neat!! |
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Post by Beej on Nov 30, 2007 3:11:54 GMT -5
Sean Taylor ... was shot down at the age of 24. An occurrence that is way too common in the black community. My prayers go out to the family. These streets are dangerous and there is an evil force called SATAN. His mandate is to STEAL, KILL and DESTROY. We are seeing this on the professional level. These are the LAST DAYS and I feel that we need to wake up and turn to God. Or, perhaps, more black men should step up to the plate and take responsibility for the children they help create. This epidemic revolves around adults not living up to their duties as parents, mentors and providers for their offspring. It's about fathers not taking an active role in their sons' lives...leading by example and teaching the importance of character, integrity and honor. It's about mothers not teaching their children to have love and compassion for others or to respect the value of human life. It's about boys not growing up with a healthy respect for women, authority or themselves. It's about a popular culture that discourages education and glorifies criminal behavior. It's about young black men solving their disputes with handguns rather than words or fists. It's about young black women allowing themselves to be used, disrespected and discarded by men who seek nothing more than sexual gratification. It's about 7 in 10 black children being born out of wedlock...6 in 10 growing up in a house with no father. It's about moral equivocations and inconsistencies from parents and "black leaders" that send children mixed messages about right and wrong. It's about 40 years of liberal bigotry that has convinced generations of black men and women to rely on an inept, ineffective federal government for assistance rather than to apply themselves and achieve something greater through their own intelligence and abilities. Simply put, it's about the collapse of the black family in America. At the time of the Civil Rights Act, nearly 82% of all black households included a mother and father. That number has since dropped to less than half of what it was in 1964. At the same time, 1 in 3 black men are now either in or have been through the justice system (prison, parole, probation, etc.) at some point in their lives. Homicide is the leading cause of death for black males between the ages of 15 and 24. To put that in perspective...blacks only constitute 1/8 of the overall population of the United States, yet they account for approximately half of all murder victims in the US each year. Nearly 95% of those murders are at the hands of other blacks. No, this isn't something that's going to be solved through prayer, protests or marches. It requires a little honesty. As long as people continue to blame the "boogie man" of the day -- be it Satan or white racism or unfair sentencing guidelines -- then nothing will change. Too many blacks don't want to tackle the real issues destroying their communities and too many whites are afraid of being labeled bigots or racists if they attempt to point out the obvious...so we get this idiotic game of political correctness where everybody ignores the 800 lb. gorilla sitting in the middle of the room. The truth is blacks aren't any less capable of getting a decent education or raising their children than whites. The answer to turning this horrific trend around starts at home with personal responsibility and accountability...and a genuine respect for life. |
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Post by AnnaK on Nov 30, 2007 10:08:08 GMT -5
"... No, this isn't something that's going to be solved through prayer, protests or marches. It requires a little honesty. As long as people continue to blame the "boogie man" of the day -- be it Satan or white racism or unfair sentencing guidelines -- then nothing will change. Too many blacks don't want to tackle the real issues destroying their communities and too many whites are afraid of being labeled bigots or racists if they attempt to point out the obvious...so we get this idiotic game of political correctness where everybody ignores the 800 lb. gorilla sitting in the middle of the room. ..."
I do agree with that. Especially your pointing out "politcal correctness."
My husband and I just returned from a trip to NYC. Of course, I insisted on visiting Harlem and the Apollo Theater. What I saw was devastating. I am not exaggerating! Photographs of lynching vicitims sold by street vendors. I lack the words to express my disgust about such savagery. The documents of human depravity were up for sale surrounded by fake perfumes, bootleg CD's and "designer" handbags. Is there anything worse one can do to these victims' remembrance and dignity than offering images of their scarred, torched, defiled, mamed bodies for sale? What does such behavior tell the young? What does it say about the sanctity of the body and human dignity? Why is nobody protesting against such acts of disrespect?
I am just wondering aloud.
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Post by maria on Nov 30, 2007 19:53:08 GMT -5
Sean Taylor ... was shot down at the age of 24. An occurrence that is way too common in the black community. My prayers go out to the family. These streets are dangerous and there is an evil force called SATAN. His mandate is to STEAL, KILL and DESTROY. We are seeing this on the professional level. These are the LAST DAYS and I feel that we need to wake up and turn to God. Or, perhaps, more black men should step up to the plate and take responsibility for the children they help create. This epidemic revolves around adults not living up to their duties as parents, mentors and providers for their offspring. It's about fathers not taking an active role in their sons' lives...leading by example and teaching the importance of character, integrity and honor. It's about mothers not teaching their children to have love and compassion for others or to respect the value of human life. It's about boys not growing up with a healthy respect for women, authority or themselves. It's about a popular culture that discourages education and glorifies criminal behavior. It's about young black men solving their disputes with handguns rather than words or fists. It's about young black women allowing themselves to be used, disrespected and discarded by men who seek nothing more than sexual gratification. It's about 7 in 10 black children being born out of wedlock...6 in 10 growing up in a house with no father. It's about moral equivocations and inconsistencies from parents and "black leaders" that send children mixed messages about right and wrong. It's about 40 years of liberal bigotry that has convinced generations of black men and women to rely on an inept, ineffective federal government for assistance rather than to apply themselves and achieve something greater through their own intelligence and abilities. Simply put, it's about the collapse of the black family in America. At the time of the Civil Rights Act, nearly 82% of all black households included a mother and father. That number has since dropped to less than half of what it was in 1964. At the same time, 1 in 3 black men are now either in or have been through the justice system (prison, parole, probation, etc.) at some point in their lives. Homicide is the leading cause of death for black males between the ages of 15 and 24. To put that in perspective...blacks only constitute 1/8 of the overall population of the United States, yet they account for approximately half of all murder victims in the US each year. Nearly 95% of those murders are at the hands of other blacks. No, this isn't something that's going to be solved through prayer, protests or marches. It requires a little honesty. As long as people continue to blame the "boogie man" of the day -- be it Satan or white racism or unfair sentencing guidelines -- then nothing will change. Too many blacks don't want to tackle the real issues destroying their communities and too many whites are afraid of being labeled bigots or racists if they attempt to point out the obvious...so we get this idiotic game of political correctness where everybody ignores the 800 lb. gorilla sitting in the middle of the room. The truth is blacks aren't any less capable of getting a decent education or raising their children than whites. The answer to turning this horrific trend around starts at home with personal responsibility and accountability...and a genuine respect for life. Why thank you Dr. Phil, what magazine did you gather all this information from? I have 3 children all with master degrees in different sciences and they all have successful careers. I am a single African American parent, due to the death of my Husband, (death by natural causes) and my first Granddaughter was awarded a full scholarship to a well know University, for academics as well as sports (vollyball not basketball). "POINT" it is only by the grace of God, my family didn't fall by the wayside. And it is the grace of God your's won't. By the way, with all these answers Why haven't you run for president. My prayers go out to the Taylor family as well. For prayer changes things! |
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Post by Beej on Dec 1, 2007 2:33:03 GMT -5
Why thank you Dr. Phil, what magazine did you gather all this information from? I don't read magazines. Those statistics are readily available from government web sites (CDC, Census Bureau, etc.) and the Urban League. In fact, the Urban League puts out much more in-depth information in its annual "The State of Black America" report. I have 3 children all with master degrees in different sciences and they all have successful careers. I am a single African American parent, due to the death of my Husband, (death by natural causes) and my first Granddaughter was awarded a full scholarship to a well know University, for academics as well as sports. Well, good for you...and I say that sincerely. By your own explanation, however, it's reasonable to assume your husband played a role in your children's development prior to his passing. You were married at the time of his death. That's not the situation I was describing...and (if the statistics are even remotely accurate) that's not the norm in America. How 'bout we take a look at the backgrounds of the four men arrested in connection with Sean Taylor's death? Do you think they came from stable, well-adjusted households? Let's not gloss over this part, though: The truth is blacks aren't any less capable of getting a decent education or raising their children than whites. The answer to turning this horrific trend around starts at home with personal responsibility and accountability...and a genuine respect for life.If you instill these values in your children and take an active role in their lives, there's no reason why they can't be successful. The old tired excuse that "the deck is stacked against" people of color doesn't wash anymore. If you don't have an education or marketable skills, you can't possibly expect to find a decent-paying job. If you have a criminal record, wear your pants around your knees or routinely butcher the English language every time you open your mouth, you can't expect a potential employer to welcome you with open arms. This applies to people of all races. Employers dream of finding intelligent, skilled people they can rely on...doesn't matter what skin color they are. There are so many incompetent boobs in the workforce as it is that a quality person with talent and an education stands out. ...it is only by the grace of God, my family didn't fall by the wayside. And it is the grace of God your's won't. Well, let's limit your beliefs to your situation. My success is entirely a byproduct of my own talent, education, effort and persistence. It was attention to detail and a lot of sleepless nights that got me where I am...not faith in a higher being. My family's stability stems from the atmosphere of love, respect and support my parents established long ago. It's why they're still happily married 39 years later, why my brother and I are both successful in our respective fields, why we look out for one another and why we reach out to help others in times of need. By the way, with all these answers Why haven't you run for president. In a lot of ways, that would be a step backwards. |
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Post by smooth on Dec 1, 2007 11:35:00 GMT -5
Sean Taylor ... was shot down at the age of 24. An occurrence that is way too common in the black community. My prayers go out to the family. These streets are dangerous and there is an evil force called SATAN. His mandate is to STEAL, KILL and DESTROY. We are seeing this on the professional level. These are the LAST DAYS and I feel that we need to wake up and turn to God. Or, perhaps, more black men should step up to the plate and take responsibility for the children they help create. This epidemic revolves around adults not living up to their duties as parents, mentors and providers for their offspring. It's about fathers not taking an active role in their sons' lives...leading by example and teaching the importance of character, integrity and honor. It's about mothers not teaching their children to have love and compassion for others or to respect the value of human life. It's about boys not growing up with a healthy respect for women, authority or themselves. It's about a popular culture that discourages education and glorifies criminal behavior. It's about young black men solving their disputes with handguns rather than words or fists. It's about young black women allowing themselves to be used, disrespected and discarded by men who seek nothing more than sexual gratification. It's about 7 in 10 black children being born out of wedlock...6 in 10 growing up in a house with no father. It's about moral equivocations and inconsistencies from parents and "black leaders" that send children mixed messages about right and wrong. It's about 40 years of liberal bigotry that has convinced generations of black men and women to rely on an inept, ineffective federal government for assistance rather than to apply themselves and achieve something greater through their own intelligence and abilities. Simply put, it's about the collapse of the black family in America. At the time of the Civil Rights Act, nearly 82% of all black households included a mother and father. That number has since dropped to less than half of what it was in 1964. At the same time, 1 in 3 black men are now either in or have been through the justice system (prison, parole, probation, etc.) at some point in their lives. Homicide is the leading cause of death for black males between the ages of 15 and 24. To put that in perspective...blacks only constitute 1/8 of the overall population of the United States, yet they account for approximately half of all murder victims in the US each year. Nearly 95% of those murders are at the hands of other blacks. No, this isn't something that's going to be solved through prayer, protests or marches. It requires a little honesty. As long as people continue to blame the "boogie man" of the day -- be it Satan or white racism or unfair sentencing guidelines -- then nothing will change. Too many blacks don't want to tackle the real issues destroying their communities and too many whites are afraid of being labeled bigots or racists if they attempt to point out the obvious...so we get this idiotic game of political correctness where everybody ignores the 800 lb. gorilla sitting in the middle of the room. The truth is blacks aren't any less capable of getting a decent education or raising their children than whites. The answer to turning this horrific trend around starts at home with personal responsibility and accountability...and a genuine respect for life. I agree to a certain extent,but you can't always blame the parent because the parent isn't with their kid 24 hours a day.The issue I think are the living conditions in the communities,alot of crime exists because people are poor. Let's be real racism does exist and it is still hard for a black man to get a job.We get stereo-typed alot and that hurts. I go to certain work places and I see 95% white people, and I know that black people have applied there before and are very capable of working there, and the reason I see mainly white people is because that's who the supervisors want working there. If alot of brothers were presented with better job opportunities, crime in the black community would be lowered tremendously.Drugs are brought into our communities by white people and then when we use it and sell it, and then we get locked up,if you want to stop a problem you go to the root of it. Alot of these dudes can't find work, so if they can sell drugs and make thousands a week they're going to do it,work at a bull$h_t job for minimum wage, or make thousands a week, alot of brothers are going to get involved in drugs. Fortunately in the white communities, for the most part, these options don't exist.Nobody is in their neighborhood with all of these drugs and guns.The white man made sure that the black communities were infested with drugs and guns.I guarantee you that if they worry about locking up the ones bringing in the guns and drugs,things would change drastically for the better, but they want us to kill ourselves, and what they wanted to happen is happening. I agree that having both parents in the home is a plus, but there are alot of single parents who do a great job. In the white community there is a higher divorce rate, but I don't see whites killing whites like blacks are killing blacks because of it.There schools are so much better than ours, and there community doesn't have the amount of drugs,drug dealers, and guns like ours. In certain neighborhoods in the black community you'll have like a few thousand people living in a 3 block radius,these are the projects where mostly everybody is struggling and going through hard times,now you have 3000 people living in a 3 block radius, and most of these families if not all are lower class, crime will exist, that's almost a guarantee. I gotta disagree,the deck is stacked against us, anytime you grow up around drugs,drug dealers,gangs and guns, and know more people that have guns than college degrees,the odds aren't in your favor. These white kids don't grow up in these kinds of communities where it's common to hear gun shots, or about a murder that happened, and I'm not talking from the news. Police brutality is another troubling thing in our communities, look at the Sean Bell case in Queens,50 shots fired, the day before his wedding he got killed by cops, and he was unarmed,white men don't go through what we go through. It is harder to survive as a black man in America. We lose alot of positive brothers to non-sense like this, the good guys are most likely to die young. The city could clean up our communities if they wanted to,but they don't. In South Jamaica Queens back in the 80's,it took for that cop to get killed before they finally came and cleaned up that neighborhood. And we do let our pants sag ,and we do speak slang,but on job interviews we wear dress shirts, slacks and shoes, and we speak proper english, so don't try and blame us and make it seem like it's entirely our fault, because it is not. We do have the skills and job skills and are ready to learn, we just need the opportunity to excel, and we need better communities without all of these guns and drugs. Unfortunately it does matter what color you are, when it comes to getting a job, not in every case but in alot of them.It is by no means an even playing field or even close to it. What about the brothers who don't have criminal records, what do you have to say about why they can't find a good job, I know brothers with college degrees who are having a hard time finding a job, even when you do right, and don't have a criminal record, sometimes you're in the same boat as that convict. When you're black it is definitely much,much harder. |
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Post by irene170 on Dec 1, 2007 14:50:09 GMT -5
To add to what smooth said, I have four children, two sons and two daughters.I know for a fact that it is much harder for Blacks to get jobs especially Black males. First, about ten years ago, my oldest daughter applied for a summer job over the phone. After talking to her, the woman told my daughter how impressed she was with her intelligence and also how very articulate she was. When my daughter showed up for the interview, with a shocked look on her face, she said " Oh, I'm so sorry but we just filled the position". This is after she was told over the phone that she had the job!
An incident with my son. He and a white friend went to apply for several jobs. Just to see what would happen, my son went in first and filled out the application. Each time the employer said that they would call. When the White friend went in, he was offered that same job on the spot.
Countless other unfair incidents happened to my sons which would take up too much space, however, in spite of the odds they are not in prison and are doing well. My daughter is an assistant principal at a middle school and my baby daughter is still in college. By the way, my husband and I have been married for 37 years and have instilled in our children Christian values which I believe made the difference and they still had problems getting jobs and other opportunities.
Just remember, If you are hungry and/ or have a family to take care of, and can't get a job, you are going to get the money one way or the other. Of course, if a certain group can't get jobs qualified or not, and the police is targeting this group, naturally most of that group will be in prison.
I could relate so many more stories from family and friends alike, but as I said, it would take up too much space.
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Post by smooth on Dec 1, 2007 17:41:19 GMT -5
To add to what smooth said, I have four children, two sons and two daughters.I know for a fact that it is much harder for Blacks to get jobs especially Black males. First, about ten years ago, my oldest daughter applied for a summer job over the phone. After talking to her, the woman told my daughter how impressed she was with her intelligence and also how very articulate she was. When my daughter showed up for the interview, with a shocked look on her face, she said " Oh, I'm so sorry but we just filled the position". This is after she was told over the phone that she had the job! An incident with my son. He and a white friend went to apply for several jobs. Just to see what would happen, my son went in first and filled out the application. Each time the employer said that they would call. When the White friend went in, he was offered that same job on the spot. Countless other unfair incidents happened to my sons which would take up too much space, however, in spite of the odds they are not in prison and are doing well. My daughter is an assistant principal at a middle school and my baby daughter is still in college. By the way, my husband and I have been married for 37 years and have instilled in our children Christian values which I believe made the difference and they still had problems getting jobs and other opportunities. Just remember, If you are hungry and/ or have a family to take care of, and can't get a job, you are going to get the money one way or the other. Of course, if a certain group can't get jobs qualified or not, and the police is targeting this group, naturally most of that group will be in prison. I could relate so many more stories from family and friends alike, but as I said, it would take up too much space. I remember I called this phone number about a driving position, and over the phone, I was told to come down for an interview. Then I go down there wearing a dress shirt,slacks, and shoes, and when I walk in the guy has this look on his face like "why am I here", so then I tell him that I'm inquiring about the driving position and that I called over the phone, then he tells me that,that job position doesn't exist even though a sign is posted out front with a phone number about the job that I'm talking to him about.He then tells me the only job available is to sweep out front in the lot,then I tell him no thanks, then I leave, at that moment I knew it was about race,that bastard,but it's all good, everything happens for a reason, good or bad. |
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Post by Beej on Dec 2, 2007 8:47:13 GMT -5
You better grab a damn SNICKERS bar, 'cause I've got a lot to say... First and foremost, it's nice we're able to have an honest and open discussion about this...which is more than I can say for our elected officials or community "leaders." I won't argue people's personal claims because I wasn't there to witness events firsthand. I will say, however, that things are not always what they might seem. White employers turn down white job applicants all the time. There's nothing unusual about that. As someone who's been in the position to hire and fire, I assure you that race was NEVER a consideration when trying to find the best people. It ultimately came down to a judgment call of who I thought would bring the most to the table or be the greatest asset to the company. A big part of that decision making is the one-on-one interview. At that point, it's not as much about what's on the resume as it is the vibe you get from the person sitting across the table from you. Personality and presentation go a long way in helping to determine who's in and who's out. I'm sure I turned away good people who -- for whatever reason -- just didn't interview well. Might they have been a better choice than the person I hired in the long run? Maybe. As someone charged with putting the company's best interests first, though, you have to go with what the applicants give you and use your own instincts to decide who fits your needs best. The color of that person's skin just does not enter into the equation. I can't sit here and tell you that bigotry and racism don't exist in the workplace, though. They exist throughout society...just like homophobia, xenophobia and every other irrational prejudice. They're not nearly as commonplace in hiring as you seem to think, however. Nor, are those traits exclusive to white employers or white people, in general. Rather than point the finger elsewhere, perhaps you should look in the mirror to see what you might be doing wrong. It may be your attitude. It may be your breath. It may be the scuff marks on your shoes. It may be any number of things that gives someone else the edge over you in that prospective employer's mind. The simple fact that a white person turns down a black person for a job should not lead anyone to jump to the conclusion that the decision is racially-motivated, however. That kind of thinking is, itself, a form of bigotry and prejudice. Not to mention, it shows a rather juvenile understanding of how the business world really works. I agree to a certain extent,but you can't always blame the parent because the parent isn't with their kid 24 hours a day. If you do your job as a parent properly, you don't need to be with them 24/7. Children rely on what they learn at home to make decisions away from home. Your sense of right and wrong doesn't change just because your mom walks out of the room. We don't hold parents accountable for their children's actions nearly enough in this country. A thirteen-year-old who picks up a gun and kills another child over a bike or a pair of sneakers -- and shows no remorse or care whatsoever -- has not been taught the most basic principles of functioning in a civil society. Whose fault is that if not the parent's or guardian's? Children are a blank slate at birth. It's up to the parents to provide the framework and guidelines that ultimately shape their decision-making and determine the people they become. The issue I think are the living conditions in the communities,alot of crime exists because people are poor. I agree that violent crime tends to be more prevalent in low-income communities. I do not, however, accept the premise that poverty causes criminal behavior. It's just a convenient excuse for people who don't want to be held accountable for their actions. Being poor does not mean that you forget the difference between right and wrong. Being poor does not mean that laws no longer apply. Being poor does not mean that you have no personal responsibility to your family or your community. Being poor does not mean you're incapable of living an honest and moral life. Being poor does not mean that you can't better yourself through education and ambition. Is it easy to pull yourself out of poverty? No. Is it possible? Absolutely. My father is living proof that you can come from nothing and still make a pretty good life for yourself. His family's living conditions didn't keep him from applying himself in school or learning personal discipline in the Army. Having to crap in an outhouse for the first 12 years of his life didn't turn him to a life of crime or undermine his character. Being teased in school for wearing the same clothes day after day didn't make him pick up a gun and shoot anyone. He used those experiences as inspiration to make something better for himself through hard work and determination. It would've been easy to give up and settle for the kind of life his father led, but he had too much character and pride for that. It's the principles I learned from him that have made me the person I am. And it's his story -- and the personal triumphs of so many like him -- that leads me to say bullshit when I see people making the same old tired excuses for the problems plaguing Black America. Things have been headed in the wrong direction for decades, but it wasn't always like this. I go to certain work places and I see 95% white people, and I know that black people have applied there before and are very capable of working there, and the reason I see mainly white people is because that's who the supervisors want working there. No, you just assume that...which says more about you and your own prejudices than anything. If alot of brothers were presented with better job opportunities, crime in the black community would be lowered tremendously. If they were presented with better opportunities? Excuse me? Opportunities are something you create through your own ambition, talent and work ethic. No one is entitled to a chance at something better. You have to make your own breaks. Nobody knocked on my door and offered me anything. I got where I am by working for it, making smart decisions and taking chances. Drugs are brought into our communities by white people and then when we use it and sell it, and then we get locked up... Wow... Are you suggesting that those who "use it" and "sell it" bear no responsibility for their actions? Are they somehow incapable of making sensible decisions about right and wrong...good and bad...legal and illegal? Are you inferring they shouldn't be prosecuted for violating our drug laws? ...if you want to stop a problem you go to the root of it. South America? Alot of these dudes can't find work, so if they can sell drugs and make thousands a week they're going to do it,work at a bull$h_t job for minimum wage, or make thousands a week, alot of brothers are going to get involved in drugs. ...which gets back to my point about having parents who instill the proper values in their children. If you have any foundation whatsoever, selling drugs is NEVER an acceptable alternative. This is precisely the kind of moral equivocation that exacerbates the other problems tearing the community apart. There is no justification for turning to a life of crime if you have a solid understanding of right and wrong or a sense of personal accountability. Again, whose fault is it if these "dudes" lack the education, job skills or desire to find respectable work at a wage comparable to their abilities? There are consequences in life for bad decisions. Dropping out of school and not making the most of your educational opportunities are bad decisions. Fortunately in the white communities, for the most part, these options don't exist.Nobody is in their neighborhood with all of these drugs and guns. Really? Have you been through the upscale white suburbs lately? Drugs are everywhere, slick. The kids in the wealthy neighborhoods prefer heroin. Yes, heroin. No, they're not shooting each other in the middle of the street...but only because they don't need to. They can all afford it. Here in the 'burbs, money does a decent job of masking many of the same problems plaguing the black communities. That doesn't mean they don't exist, however. The white man made sure that the black communities were infested with drugs and guns.I guarantee you that if they worry about locking up the ones bringing in the guns and drugs,things would change drastically for the better, but they want us to kill ourselves, and what they wanted to happen is happening. Wow, so in addition to being a complete moron, you're also an unabashed bigot. Nice. I'd say you've got a bright future with the Nation of Islam...you've already got the horseshit rhetoric down. And we do let our pants sag ,and we do speak slang,but on job interviews we wear dress shirts, slacks and shoes, and we speak proper english, so don't try and blame us and make it seem like it's entirely our fault, because it is not. We do have the skills and job skills and are ready to learn, we just need the opportunity to excel, and we need better communities without all of these guns and drugs. Hardly, anybody speaks "proper" English...doesn't matter what race they are. America is a nation full of "C" students. The references to dress and speech were not limited to black kids, alone; they apply to ALL kids. In case you haven't noticed, white kids usually copy everything black kids do...fashion, music, language...there's really very little difference. The problem is that the culture they all seek to emulate is a recipe for failure. They don't realize that much of the imagery they're trying so desperately to copy is largely manufactured in board rooms by middle-aged white men. That black kids are ridiculed as "trying to be white" if they apply themselves and actually take an interest in their future speaks volumes. It's also somewhat ironic, considering just how dumb and lazy white kids can be. What about the brothers who don't have criminal records, what do you have to say about why they can't find a good job, I know brothers with college degrees who are having a hard time finding a job, even when you do right, and don't have a criminal record, sometimes you're in the same boat as that convict. When you're black it is definitely much,much harder. And white kids are guaranteed jobs simply because they have college degrees? Where is this fantasy land you speak of...this Ivory Utopia? It sounds like a wonderful place to be white. Man, I probably wouldn't have to work or anything...just sit back with a bag of Doritos and wait for the mailman to drop off my monthly "white guy" check. Sweet! Don't be so simple. A college degree thirty years ago might have opened doors -- back when a high school diploma still meant something -- but not today. I don't know a single person who's working in the same field his degree is in. That fancy piece of paper merely tells employers you've put the time (and money) in to advance your education. It doesn't guarantee you work...not even if you're white. Man, you don't know too many white folks, do you? LOL... He then tells me the only job available is to sweep out front in the lot,then I tell him no thanks, then I leave, at that moment I knew it was about race,that bastard,but it's all good, everything happens for a reason, good or bad. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Based on my interaction with you on this board, I wouldn't let you walk my dog to the mailbox and back. I can only imagine what that experience must be like in person. But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe white people have nothing better to do than wake up each and every morning thinking of new ways to keep a brother down, by all means, be my guest. It's obvious you're not alone in your absurdity. What I see -- both here and elsewhere -- is this recurring theme about deserving opportunities...which, to me, is a tell-tale sign that the velvet oppression of liberalism has a firm grip. When a political party gets 90% of the black vote election after election for decades on end, that party's leadership realizes they don't have to actually deliver on their promises. They take that support for granted, throwing out a few crumbs here and there. They tell you what they think you want to hear. They tell you you're entitled to certain things because the odds are so stacked against you that you can't possibly compete on a level playing field. Of course, what they're REALLY saying is they don't think you're bright enough or capable of achieving things on your own without their "assistance." History says they're dead wrong, of course, but that doesn't stop the message from grabbing hold. They tell you the problems in your communities are out of your control and can't be solved without government intervention. They tell you it's okay to fail, as long as you try. They tell you your schools are falling behind because there just isn't enough funding to go around. Of course, they blame that on "tax cuts for the rich"...because, well, all those greedy old white men simply aren't paying their fair share! They talk down to you like children, rather than treating you as their equals. They say, "Things are getting better...but there's still a long way to go!" Naturally, that's code language for, "No, we haven't lived up to any of our promises, but you should vote for us again anyway." And you do. The solutions are well within your reach, but the same old suspects -- Jesse, Al, Louie, Maxine, Sheila, Julian, Harry, the NAACP, the DNC, etc. -- keep singing that same familiar song. Nothing ever improves. It anything, it only gets worse. There's a lot of power and money at stake. By keeping those problems around and dividing people by race, they maintain their power and influence in the community. They don't want conditions to improve and they don't want equality. There's too much to lose. It's so bad that when someone as universally beloved as Bill Cosby -- a man who's done more for race relations and the advancement of black people than Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louie Farrakhan, Maxine Waters and Julian Bond combined -- stands up and says, "Hey, look! We have to stop blaming everyone else for our problems and start changing the way we're conducting ourselves and raising our children in our own communities," he gets attacked by the professional race-baiters and their minions. The man's been around a long time. He's seen the best and the worst of times. It hurts him to see what's become of the Civil Rights movement 40+ years later. And yet, he gets labeled an "Uncle Tom" for stating the obvious and trying to show people a way out of this downward spiral. Do you see why it's frustrating to an outsider like me? I can only imagine how he must feel. The excuses have to end. You can't sit around waiting for opportunities or praying for things to improve. Change starts at home...one family at a time...one house at a time...one block at a time...one neighborhood at a time. |
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Post by irene170 on Dec 2, 2007 16:02:06 GMT -5
First, I must say that many of the things you said Beej I agree with to a point. Most Black parents that I know, teach their children that although racism is still alive and well , there is still no excuse not to succeed.
Although you are fair in your hiring practices , I must tell you that is not always the case. As a Black person, I can only relate actual cases and experiences that you have not had. First, my daughter used to teach Business and Economics, and taught her students exactly what you said about attitude, dress, speech , appearance and all of the things that many White and Black youth lack knowledge of when it comes to interviewing skills. She is very articulate and intelligent and I can tell you that some of the jobs she did not get was because of race. That didn't stop her however, because many other companies were trying their best to get her because she was good.
I am not pointing any fingers anywhere. Most Black parents do instill proper values in their kids just as I, my parents ( father and mother), and my grandparents, none of which have ever been on Welfare. The countless stories I can tell you really happened and are neither imagined nor made up!!
Also, the idea that it is time for Black people to stand on their own two feet, support one another, stop depending on and blaming others, and both parents taking responsibiity for their children is one of the major things that LOUIS FARRAKHAN teaches.
I must tell you of another REAL case. My husband used to work for a company and was one of the best there. In spite of his abilities he was overlooked many times for promotion. He trained two White employees who by the way ,started off getting paid more than he. What really took the cake, one woman came crying to my husband frustrated because she could not handle the stress and could not figure out the proper decisions to make so that her project would be a success. My husband literally worked with her and taught her how to do everything that was necessary. The next thing you know she gets promoted over him. I don't know about other cases where there might have been a good reason for overlooking an employee for promotion, but I can tell you in this REAL case it was race because even other Whites privately said that he was the most qualified. Yes, I know that this type of thing happens to Whites as well in some cases but in this incident, it was race .There are other details I left out that proved it without a doubt.
Another thing, I just wish someone would speak out against CORPORATE WELFARE!!!
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Post by irene170 on Dec 2, 2007 17:25:13 GMT -5
I am the daughter of Irene 170 and I must say that I have had the pleasure of being around all types of people from every race and every socioeconomic background. I've been in a private school with affluent whites, I went to a public school with middle class white, blacks and Hispanics, I attended an all black university with ambitious African Americans, I taught at an all Hispanic school, poor black school, and now I am an assistant principal at a mostly affluent white school. Additionally, when I was in college I worked with poor whites. I found that poor whites, blacks, and Hispanics all have the same things in common. Most people, not all, from low socioeconomic backgrounds do not value education or family values and are most likely to commit crimes. So when you say this is a problem in the black community, you are right, however, there are also problems with crime in poor white and Hispanic communities. There are also white collar crimes, which is not publicized as much as the crimes in the black communities. Crimes like the one Martha Stewart was charged with happens all the time. They have the resources and the money to usually cover it up. Remember, I said earlier, I work at a school with mostly affluent whites, so I have first hand experience with this. They always show black on black crime on the 10:00 news which gives black people a bad image, which in turn makes people stereotype blacks. I'm not saying it's not a problem that needs to be addressed, but white people should not assume all blacks commit crimes. Which takes me to my next point that many teachers in public education brings those same stereotypes and misconceptions to the classroom. The black students that attend my school are poor and need nourishment, motivation, and extra attention, not negativity. The students know when a teacher is prejudice and as a result, most poor black students have a bad experience in the public school system. The teachers in my school that are successful with the poor students have a positive attitude, are motivating, and develop a good relationship with them. Research shows that if a student is a poor reader by the time he is in 4th grade, that student will most likely be in and out of jail. That's why the recidivism rate is so high. They build jails based on the number of students that fail the standardized test in Florida in the third grade. My point is, if poor students have negative experiences in the public school system, they are most likely to drop out and commit crimes. If white people would stop assuming that all blacks are a certain way maybe this would help those negative experiences our young black students have to face when they attend school. Statistics show that most serial killers and rapists are white males. Should I assume that all white men are serial killers and rapists? Someone from every race and every socioeconomic background commits crimes, just different types of crimes. Rich and knowledgeable people just have the money and resources to cover it up. In closing, yes, our black men need help, and as an educator I know for a fact it must start with having more positive role models and teachers in the public school system. If there were more positive educators at the elementary school level to give these young black men what they don't get at home, it will make a world of difference. Trust me, I've seen it happen!!!!!!!
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Post by Beej on Dec 3, 2007 7:55:19 GMT -5
Most Black parents do instill proper values in their kids... I don't disagree that "most" do. My argument is that too many do not. Take the person at the center of this particular tragedy, for instance...Sean Taylor. Now, I understand he had some troubles in his past, but by all indications he had taken steps to turn his life around. Yet, his life was cut short by the actions of four men -- all of whom had previous criminal records -- who thought it was okay to break into his house and take whatever they wanted. I have to ask...what was the decision-making process that led them to conclude they were justified in stealing from someone else? What went through the gunman's head when he decided to fire two shots at Taylor, rather than flee the property empty-handed with no one being harmed? These are not the actions of people who come from a stable home environment where morality, character, honor, respect and an appreciation for life were stressed from an early age. It's not the people who raise their children properly that are the problem...it's the one's who neglect their responsibilities as parents. Their lack of involvement in their children's lives more often than not ends up affecting other people somewhere down the line. You can make that case for people of all races, but the disproportionate level of violent crime (resulting in death) that exists in the black community is epidemic. I don't have to tell you that it wasn't always the case. In relative terms, this complete disregard for human life is a recent development. My parents graduated from the same high school ('59 and '66). Back in those days, it had a racial composition of roughly 3:2, white to black students. Although not a "wealthy" area by any means, the city relied on the steel mills to fuel the local economy. Neighborhoods were somewhat segregated -- by personal choice, not decree -- but the "black" and "white" areas were both economically viable. With the closing of the mills in the early '80s, however, there was a mass exodus. My grandmother had lived in the same house since the early-'40s, so she had no plans of going anywhere. Little by little, though, something started happening. The "big city" problems plaguing Pittsburgh started making their way into the community. Drugs and gang activity began taking a toll. My mother and aunt told her she should consider moving to a safer area, but she refused. Then, in June 1996, a young boy was shot and killed in her backyard in the middle of the night. That was the final straw. We moved her out of there that July. Eleven years later, you couldn't pay me to drive through that section of town...which is a real shame. I remember how it used to be when we would visit my grandmother and other relatives as kids. It's hard to see what the place has become. And I have to ask...why did it change? The blacks and whites who stayed after the mills closed were still the same decent people they'd always been. It was the new people moving in who seemed to get progressively worse with each wave of migration. At some point, the bad started to out-number the good. And I ask, why didn't the "bad" people use the "good" people as a frame of reference to better their lives? Why did the "good" people allow their communities to descend into chaos? They live in the same neighborhoods. They shop at the same stores. They attend the same schools. Yet, there's a dramatic difference in the way the "old" residents and the "new" residents conduct themselves. It's senseless. Also, the idea that it is time for Black people to stand on their own two feet, support one another, stop depending on and blaming others, and both parents taking responsibility for their children is one of the major things that LOUIS FARRAKHAN teaches. Well, with all due respect, that's the sugar-coated version of Louis Farrakhan's message. You left out the part where he blames whites and Jews for every problem under the sun. He's a clown...an unmitigated, unapologetic racist to the highest degree. For decades, he's been preying on people's fears, ignorance and despair to further his own brand of hatred and bigotry. His true message is one of segregation...a separate nation for black Americans descended from slaves. Malcolm X found out the hard way what the Nation Of Islam was really about. He came to reject the racism and hypocrisy of the movement -- seeing Elijah Muhammad for the complete fraud that he was -- and lost his life as a result. It's hard to imagine that any reasonable person could possibly take the man seriously...even before discussing the "Mother Wheel." Another thing, I just wish someone would speak out against CORPORATE WELFARE!!! Hey, I'm game for any topic...though, my participation in this thread was solely in reaction to the original post's assertion that people need to now "turn to God" to undo the "work of Satan." I think it's much more sensible and productive to acknowledge and confront these problems in tangible terms. I didn't state my views for the purpose of debating all the different types of crime that exist in society. I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of why there's such an inordinate number of young black men killing other young black men. I am the daughter of Irene 170... Excellent. Welcome aboard. So when you say this is a problem in the black community, you are right, however, there are also problems with crime in poor white and Hispanic communities. There are also white collar crimes, which is not publicized as much as the crimes in the black communities. Crimes like the one Martha Stewart was charged with happens all the time. They have the resources and the money to usually cover it up. I don't disagree. Traditionally, white-collar criminals have been viewed -- rightly or wrongly -- as less of a threat to society because their crimes are largely financial in nature. In addition, the accused in white-collar cases generally have the ability to afford the best legal defense available. So, you've had a lot of criminal activity go un-prosecuted over the years. Naturally, it would be easy to look at the color of most people perpetrating these types of crimes and make the assertion that it's indicative of a disparity between "white" and "black" justice in America, but the reality is that it's more a testament to the two-tiered justice system of the "haves" and the "nave nots." The "privileged" in America generally play by a different set of rules than the rest of us. Ironically, it took a pro-business Republican administration to really start cracking down on these types of crimes in an effort to restore public faith in the dealings of our financial institutions. There's no question that high profile cases like Enron, Martha Stewart and Tyco CEO Dennis Kozlowski have brought growing awareness to the shady dealings of some of this country's largest corporations. Many of them prospered mightily under the blind eye of the Clinton Justice Department, but they've been put on notice. They always show black on black crime on the 10:00 news which gives black people a bad image, which in turn makes people stereotype blacks. Agreed. It doesn't alter the fact that these crimes are taking place, but the disproportional nature of the coverage does a tremendous disservice to the majority of people in the black community who live honest, decent lives. Then again, how much good news really gets reported? The war in Iraq has all but fallen out of the news since considerable tactical improvements and measurable progress have been made in recent months. I'm not saying it's not a problem that needs to be addressed, but white people should not assume all blacks commit crimes. Agreed. The biggest problem I see is the lack of personal interaction between people of different races. That unfamiliarity can open the door for ignorance, distrust and prejudice to seep in if you're not careful. When you have such limited intimate communication with people of different backgrounds, it's much easier to believe the absolute worst about them or make gross generalizations about an entire community based solely on a handful of experiences or hearsay. I see it on both sides of the fence. The irrational things people in the black community are willing to believe about whites is mind-boggling sometimes. The conspiracy theories and demonization are beyond bizarre. At the same time, I'm sick of hearing snotty white kids from the suburbs paint all blacks as lazy, dope-dealing, gang-banging thugs...especially when their only experience with anyone of color is watching a Jay-Z video. It's the ease with which the racial slurs roll off their tongues that makes my skin crawl. But they believe everything they see on TV -- the hip-hop imagery and the sports "bad boys" -- and no one ever steps in to correct them or tell them just how stupid they sound. I guess I've been fortunate in that my parents raised my brother and I to judge people on their individual merits and form opinions based on our own personal interactions, rather than rely on stereotypes or what others say. To that end, I've had the opportunity to interact with many people of different races face-to-face through sports and college. The truth is, they weren't any different than me. I draw on those experiences to discount the ridiculous things I see and hear from others...and I'm never shy about pointing out the fact that every rotten person I've ever known has been white. You can't reach everyone, though. Some people just want to believe what they've been told...no matter how irrational it seems. |
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Post by irene170 on Dec 4, 2007 14:49:07 GMT -5
I can appreciate some of the things you said, However, I can give you just as many examples of White youths that do horrible things. For example, here in Miami, several White youths brutally beat many homeless people for no good reason. What decision making process led them to do what they did? Also , I see White youths do all kinds of evil things all the time which is usually covered up and very rarely reported. I know first hand because it happens all the time at my school. As soon as Black youths do one thing, it is automatically reported on the news. Also, What made three adults brutally beat a 16 year old to death in a North Florida boot camp? I do not care what he did , nobody of any race deserves that . The part that gets me is that they got off scott free!
Yes, there is a definite problem in the black community, nobody is denying that, but I'm here to tell you that I see affluent White youths do just as many evil things as Black kids, you just don't hear about it because it is always covered up!!!
Just as you, I jugde people by their character not their race. I have enough sense to know that you have good and bad in all races. I have very good friends from all races and backgrounds and just as you do with your friends, we discuss things honestly.
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